Trapshooting Hall of Fame Museum ?

Discussion in 'Trapshooting Forum - Americantrapshooter.com' started by History Seeker, Apr 29, 2018.

  1. History Seeker

    History Seeker A NoBody Official Historian Founding Member

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    I had an interesting question posed to me yesterday by a fellow at the club.

    He asked me who loaned the Trapshooting Hall of Fame the money to erect the Museum building. Surely the contractors had to be paid for the work they did.

    Ummmm, I don't know the answer to that.

    He had visited the THOF web site, and saw the Donate to the THOF Museum for the payment ballance of the museum. (or something like that)

    He asked IF I knew who, and if something happened and they could not pay the building off and went into some sort of default foreclosure, would the State of Illinois have to pay off the loan since they own the building?

    I had no idea how to answer that, can anyone shed some light on the subject ?
     
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  2. everhart8

    everhart8 Member

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    $2.2 Million to a state that fights guns. Not $2.2 million to be used to promote the sport. That's what the ATA needs. More money to give to Illinois. I do not need a handicap card to shoot trap anymore. No more money to Illinois. The sport comes first. A building not owned by the ATA is way down the list. This is a slow painful death.
     
  3. GeorgeinPA

    GeorgeinPA Active Member

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    Maybe the above post is a little strong but we have what we have because we are the org. We were in charge.....all of us. We still are.
     
  4. oldphart

    oldphart Mega Poster Founding Member

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    GeorgeinPA,

    Please advise how you feel "WE ARE IN CHARGE" when the ATA management tell the rank and file they are on a need to know basis and that the ATA EXEC make all decisions and don't inform the members unless after the fact it becomes an issue. Even then we don't get all the information.
     
  5. GeorgeinPA

    GeorgeinPA Active Member

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    WE ARE IN CHARGE!!! You give away your power every damn time you spend a penny on registered targets. Collectively we botched it. We allowed the creeps to own us.

    Not one of those guys represents me. I am in charge. I will shoot the "Series" if they happen. Meat shoots, maybe a live bird shoot. I am not going to spend too much time blaming what I let happen.
     
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  6. NancyD

    NancyD Member

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    I would like to hear from someone that donated to the HOF after they found out it is owned by Illinois.
     
  7. wpt

    wpt Forum Leader Founding Member Forum Leader

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    Nancy D,
    We, the members all contributed to the HOF in Illinois by the ATA giving them $250,000 of the members money, then they are humping everyone's leg for donations to pay off the debt ... The Members are making them pay by backing off on attending the registered shoots ...The respect that members had for the EC and BOD are long gone, you play hell trying to find anyone who has anything good to say about the ATA these days ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
  8. dr.longshot

    dr.longshot Grudge Match Champion Founding Member Grudge Match Champion Forum Leader

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    $250,000 for a $60,000 Horse Barn, that could be built Here in Ohio by Horse Barn Builders all the time, the ONLY addition is The A/C

    GB..........................DLS
     
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  9. wpt

    wpt Forum Leader Founding Member Forum Leader

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    I got an ever better question that should of but has never been answered ... The ATA collected a relocation fee for quite a long time on each and every entry ... The Members were told it was for the ATA to seek and establish a Home Grounds to replace the Home Grounds that were located in Vandalia, Ohio and had to be vacated due to air port expansion, so no one that I know of questioned it and took it for granted that this was an action need to preserve the existence of the ATA and the Grand American Championships ... Then all of a sudden the ATA cannot and does not find a place suitable that would pass due diligence so they came up with a Lease deal with the State of Illinois on what is known as the WSRC in Sparta, Ill that was never honored and some how got turned into a MOS to get the pressure off and assure there was a place for the grand, and it could not pass due diligence either which was eliminated due to it being leased (?) rather than purchased ... The ATA as it turns our spent all of the Money (so they said ) that was collected in the relocation fund on new Pat Traps to be able to supply the State of Illinois with the traps to run the shoot on a place that was leased but never leased so somehow, some where that got all covered up and forgotten about ... The ATA has been ripping off members since before the relocation and it continues to this day as it has all along ... The EC buys a building then sells it to the ATA for a nice profit, guys line up for a new gun after playing big shot president for a year and does nothing all that while other than attend shoots on the members money along with other on the EC and some of the BOD who are suck ups to the EC, ED, so they can be part of the party ... The Members need to start a fund to pursue legal steps to stop the ED, EC , and those on the BOD who are involved and make them pay dearly for the destruction of an Organization that was once built on Integrity, Honor and sportsman ship ... That is not to mention some traps that came up missing when all of them were bought ... The ATA is as corrupt as the elected officials in the State of Illinois which is why they fit right in ... They will burn in HELL ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  10. Rosey

    Rosey Mega Poster Founding Member

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    dr.l, A 40 x 60 pole barn with a concrete floor and some electrical cost $50,000 min.
     
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  11. Bat

    Bat Elite Poster

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    You'd have to check the minutes or other documents HP has posted, but I am pretty sure a bank financed it. I am sure the State will not have to make any payments if the debt were to go into default.
     
  12. Bat

    Bat Elite Poster

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    There might have been some individual loans also, Think I read that here at some time. I think the details were posted some time ago.
     
  13. wpt

    wpt Forum Leader Founding Member Forum Leader

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    The Martins donated 1 million dollars ($1,000,000 ) to the HOF , one would assume that was toward the costs related to building it ... Only the Shadow knows ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  14. T Shot

    T Shot Mega Poster

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    Longshot & Rosey the HOF building makes anything at the CC look like outhouses!
     
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  15. LimaShooter50

    LimaShooter50 Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    I cant find in your vast shooting experience when you shot at the Cardinal Center. Haters hate. lol
     
  16. Garry

    Garry Mega Poster

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    You have got to be kidding!!!
     
  17. T Shot

    T Shot Mega Poster

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    Never said I shot there. Juust think it's a dump and I will never go back. You are right haters hate the WSRC.
     
  18. wpt

    wpt Forum Leader Founding Member Forum Leader

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    T Shot,
    It would be in your best interest to get back on your medication :
    you say I never said I shot there. Juust think its a dump and I will never go back ( I assume your talking about the CC ..?) ....? Read it, it makes no sense at all, but if you take the time to look at the numbers, you are the one who is missing some thing, not those who choose to not attend shoots at the WSRC but do shoot at the Cardinal Center ... To each their own ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  19. History Seeker

    History Seeker A NoBody Official Historian Founding Member

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    I did some digging in the archives and from what I could see it appeared that the THOF used what they have of value,( be it money or articles of worth ) as collateral and took out a loan but I could not find whether it was a bank loan or personal loan.

    So that being said, it appears that the Trapshooting Hall of Fame would be on the hook to pay off the loan.

    NOW REMEMBER, this is NOT THE ATA !!!

    It is a whole separate organization under the management of a whole different Board of Trustees.

    So it appears that the ATA would NOT be responsible for any default as the STATE would also NOT be responsible for payments.

    Thanks for all the input. Some of it got me pointed in the right direction.
     
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  20. T Shot

    T Shot Mega Poster

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    WPT what are you smoking now? Waht wasn't clear? Let me try again. I have never shot at the CC I don't like it, I like the WSRC more. I will shoot there as much as I can! Like YOU said to each their own!
     
  21. LimaShooter50

    LimaShooter50 Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Laughing so hard at this guy. Thankfully the mods let him talk. The more he talks the more you have to laugh at his ignorance. Obviously a bitter old guy that is in the infantile stage of life. We will all get there. Hopefully not as bitter.

    What could the ATA have done with the 2 million? Who needs it?

    Hiding that the state of Illinois owned the building before asking for donations is unforgivable. I cant imagine asking for a donation so the money can be given to a state entity. At every opportunity those guys act like those guys.

    I still love trapshooting. What is done there is done there.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2018
  22. wpt

    wpt Forum Leader Founding Member Forum Leader

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    Waht (what ) wasn't clear ..?

    Quote : (by T Shot)...
    " I have never shot at the CC I don't like it, I like the WSRC more ... I will shoot there as much as I can ..."

    So, you have never shot at the Cardinal Center but you don't like it ..? (If you have not shot there how do you know you don't like it ..? ) From what many have said you don't shoot at the WSRC either but you say you like it ..?
    Yes , get back on your Medication and off the booze or what ever your smoking ...

    FYI:
    The Majority of shooters today can care less about the WSRC, it has proved it cannot draw a crowd based on attendance records of the past 12 or 13 years ... The Members are tired of supporting an association that does not even know they exist unless its time to collect money for something ... The HOF being located in Illinois is a Joke, people don't go there to shoot so they damn sure are not going to drive there to see a HOF more than once, if at all ... WPT ... (NOT - YAC) ...
     
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  23. T Shot

    T Shot Mega Poster

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    I do shoot at the WSRC. Others on here are full of it and don't know me! WPT you say you won't go to the WSRC so how can you say it's bad? I'm just saying I don't like the CC. You don't have to have shot some place to not like it! Shoot where you want and I will do the same! The ATA is in Sparta like it or not. That's just the way it is. If you don't go there I don't care!
     
  24. Live Oak

    Live Oak Well-Known Member

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    OK I'll translate. Ignorance is bliss.
     
  25. wpt

    wpt Forum Leader Founding Member Forum Leader

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    For the record, I never said the WSRC was bad, I said I would not support the ATA or the State of Illinois and will never fire a shot there ... I say what I mean and mean what I say, not misleading in any way ... I actually have been told the WSRC is the ultimate facility with anything and everything shooters could possibly want with the exception of places to stay in the immediate or general area so that problem would be on the Biggie List ... I had been to Sparta long before anyone came up with a lame brain idea to build a trap shooting facility there and found the town proper to actually be quite nice, laid back and relaxing ... I do not have a problem with what got done, I resent the way it got done without regard to the membership (ATA) and them not being taken into consideration and have said that numerous times over the years ... There were also other places available to the ATA where they could of been owners rather than renters but that is long in the past and does not matter any more ...

    Politics in Illinois is NOT an Honorable Profession and never has been obviously being part of ED, EC, and many of the BOD are of the same caliber ... I am a Life Member and held the ATA in the highest regard for most of the years I have been a member since 1975 ... The ATA is now a Cash Cow for the ED, EC and many of those on the BOD and a majority of the membership ( whats left of it ) resent that so they shoot a lot more practice and a lot less registered ... The Elected officials of the ATA are like a Cancer and the way it is set up there is no way to cure it ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  26. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member Forum Leader

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    Him, me, and THOUSANDS of others don't go to that place in IL.
    You might not care but someone should. Hell, maybe THAT is the problem, the ED thinks things are going in a fantastic direction.
     
  27. Par4

    Par4 Well-Known Member

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    T Shot:

    I have never been there. I do not like it. I will never to back to where I have never been.







    C92354B4-CDAC-4CB0-8A62-FCADDA4AF768.jpeg
     
  28. Par4

    Par4 Well-Known Member

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    I am having trouble with the HOF math here. Maybe someone can help me out. It is stated above the building cost a quarter million. It is stated above the Martins donated a million. Now this seems to leave a three quarters of a million surplus before additional donations are included. What am I missing?
     
  29. Union Strong

    Union Strong Well-Known Member

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    The building total cost $2.25 million. The State of Illinois owns the HOF building.

    I believe the Martins went to the head of the line at the HOF.
     
  30. Par4

    Par4 Well-Known Member

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    Ok thanks.
     
  31. dr.longshot

    dr.longshot Grudge Match Champion Founding Member Grudge Match Champion Forum Leader

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    How can the ATA, HOF, take a mortgage out on Items they do not own? Most of the Items are on Loan to the HOF.

    GB............................DLS
     
  32. History Seeker

    History Seeker A NoBody Official Historian Founding Member

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    Doc,

    Without going into a lot of details, You may find MOST of the items have been DONATED.

    I am sure HB can verify this.
     

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