No Target Requirements?

Discussion in 'Trapshooting Forum - Americantrapshooter.com' started by tarpmaker, May 6, 2022.

  1. tarpmaker

    tarpmaker Well-Known Member

    What would be so bad if there were no target requirements?
     
  2. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    There's some meat there for the little clubs but not much anymore. Actually, it means little because D shooters are shooting AA scores to win. So, it makes more sense to put everyone in class AA or A and forget meeting target requirements.
     
  3. Tsphens

    Tsphens Active Member

    IMO...I don't think target requirements should be a thing.
     
    Roger Coveleskie likes this.
  4. CB630

    CB630 Well-Known Member

    So why is it always that shooters in the lower classifications are out shooting the Higher classifications
     
    Roger Coveleskie likes this.
  5. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    Target management skills.
     
    Zealot likes this.
  6. LCH

    LCH Mega Poster Forum Leader

    I see why there are target requirements but I question how effective they are at combating sandbaggers.

    Irregardless if there are sandbaggers or not, the guys that are going to post 99s and 100s over and over at singles are going to do so. If you can't break a 99+ at singles your not really competitive. Doubles is a little different but still, I think it's fair to say at a big shoot regardless of class/category you need to be able to break a 96+.

    Most of the time it seems long yardage handicap wins the majority of handicap events.

    Imo target requirements gives us mediocre shooters a false sense of hope that we can be competitive by being in lower classes than the big dogs. Look at the scores D, C and B class shooters post at the state shoot. If you don't have the ability to run 100 straight, yourre really there to have fun and donate lead.
    (Speaking from someone who doesn't have the ability to run 100 straight)
     
  7. BOB711

    BOB711 Member

    You will always have people try to work the system,
     
  8. IowaShooter

    IowaShooter Well-Known Member

    Just shoot penalty Class and Yardage problem solved.
    The difference from 1 class to another is 1 target.
    The difference from short yardage to long is wind.
     
  9. Michael J

    Michael J Active Member

    Since all the top shooters are shooting 98,99,100 then it's time to make the 3 hole target a requirement.
     
  10. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    While we're at it ban release triggers, voice systems, adjustable combs/impacts and high priced guns. All of these contributed to higher scores.
     
    BRAD DYSINGER likes this.
  11. alf174

    alf174 Mega Poster Founding Member

    1 oz max at 1145fps max will even the field.
     
  12. rrisum

    rrisum Mega Poster

    In my opinion there is a lot of the D-B-C shooter are in those class's because they are willing to shoot in all conditions -- snow rain and wind -- When I have seen AA shoots pass on a windy day.
     
    BRAD DYSINGER, BCB and Ron Burdick like this.
  13. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    I never saw Frank Little duck a shoot.
     
  14. rrisum

    rrisum Mega Poster

    some people earn their class -- others will do anything to get there.
     
  15. BCB

    BCB Active Member

    And to protect it.
     
  16. Smithy

    Smithy Mega Poster Founding Member

    And I never saw him shoot a duck. And why would anyone duck a shoot that was given free illlegal Remingtons? And FYI….we one of his shooting pals on record confirming that.
     
  17. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    I heard from a friend of a friends ex-wife's sister's boyfriend once removed who knew Frank quite well stated that the shells they stole from Franks garage exceeded 1,400 fps over his $79 chronograph. They even used a full choke just like Frank's for the testing.
     
  18. Smithy

    Smithy Mega Poster Founding Member

    Frank’s All American Shooting partner got the same shells. Franks average went up 2 points. The Frank Little man crush is noted. Lol

    As to the topic…target requirements aren’t a part of live bird events.
     
  19. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    So you're saying Frank's average went up because of illegal shells and not because voice systems and 2-hole targets became the norm? And that $79 Chrony Chronograph never measured leading pellets instead shot mass. Heck, I remember one of those so called expert chronographers measured my 17 gr Red Dot loads at 1,265 with an 1 1/8 oz shot. My mommy once told me the moon was made of green cheese and I was young and dumb enough to believe her. BTW, who shoots live birds anymore?
    .
     
  20. Andrew Ott

    Andrew Ott New Member Founding Member

    I would if I could afford it .
     
    oleolliedawg likes this.
  21. Smithy

    Smithy Mega Poster Founding Member

    Dawg

    You admitted to participating in systemic cheating. Your cred left with the easy targets you threw.
     
  22. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    Sure, and you shot 'em and never complained. Still shooting 'em and still not complaining or do you even shoot anymore?
     
  23. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    Welcome aboard Mr. Ott. Since you knew Frank Little more than just a bit would you call him a cheater?
     
  24. Andrew Ott

    Andrew Ott New Member Founding Member

    You've known me for40 years and you call me mister ? I have never heard anyone call him a cheater . Andy
     
  25. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    Got it Otto Schnitzel.
     
  26. mudpack

    mudpack Mega Poster Founding Member

    That requirement might lower everyone's scores a little, but it won't bring everyone's scores into parity. The top shooters will still consistently outscore the not-top shooters.
    So, yes, it could drop scores, but it won't even the field. In fact, it will drop the 80-90 scores more than it will the 90-100 scores; resulting in higher disparity.
    There will always be shooters who are better than the rest, no matter what kind of targets are thrown or what loads are required.
    All that provided I understand your post correctly. I think the subject is how class D, C, etc. shooters post scores that should be posted ONLY by AA and A shooters.
     
  27. Andrew Ott

    Andrew Ott New Member Founding Member

    Like the Dawg says "target management" .
     
    oleolliedawg likes this.
  28. 99PLUS

    99PLUS Well-Known Member Founding Member

    Shot with a guy that got 24,24,24,23. D Class 19 yd. shooter. 96 would have got him a yard. 95 won the class with no yardage punch.
     
    Flyersarebest likes this.
  29. Ron Burdick

    Ron Burdick Well-Known Member Founding Member

    99PLUS :
    There are no classes in Handicap events.
    Ron Burdick
     
  30. mission6222

    mission6222 Mega Poster

    Short-mid-long are not classes?
     
  31. 99PLUS

    99PLUS Well-Known Member Founding Member

    D Class singles, 19 yd.HC forgot the comma.
     
    Ron Burdick likes this.
  32. Roger Coveleskie

    Roger Coveleskie State HOF Founding Member Member State Hall of Fame

    Smithy, Any one that shot the Grand. was shooting pumped up shells. Were they all cheaters? If you bought shells to take home from the Grand, you were shooting pumped up shells anywhere you shot. I'm talking about 1985 to 200--. When the ATA went from selling you your shells with your entry fee and allowed the use of reloads it back off. Roger C.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2022
  33. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    If everyone shot the same shells at the Grand how could they be cheating?
     
    Roger Coveleskie likes this.
  34. Roger Coveleskie

    Roger Coveleskie State HOF Founding Member Member State Hall of Fame

    Smithy got his ass handed to him so many times by the good shooters in his mind they had to be cheating. Pumped up shells still had to be pointed in the right place, being a dedicated and skilled shooter was the answer. As for the thief, he is the lowest of the low, AND YOU ARE RIGHT WITH HIM. Anyone that knows you or him should not trust you two in the shit house with a muzzle on. THE MOST HATTED BEING ON EARTH ARE THIEVES AND LIARS. Roger C.
     
    oleolliedawg likes this.
  35. Smithy

    Smithy Mega Poster Founding Member

    Please list the GAH Championships Frank had when everyone shot the same shells.

    The ball bustin Green Petes we’re not available at the grand. They were delivered to specific addresses.

    Now put your teeth in and give us the list of GAH Championships Frank had when we all had the same shells.
     
  36. Roger Coveleskie

    Roger Coveleskie State HOF Founding Member Member State Hall of Fame

    Smithy, I shot many targets with Frank. With Phil Shirk, Tom Mondal, JIM Walker, Ramo Lupi on the squad. Do you think these 4 guys would have let one another shot hopped up shells? You are delusional. How many events did your win with you stolden shells? You are just trying to get your day in the sun by trying to ruin a mans good name when he can no longer protect himself. You are one of the lowest of the lowes. Roger C.
     
    Tom Machamer and oleolliedawg like this.
  37. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    Refer back to post #19. No further comment needed.
     
    Tom Machamer likes this.
  38. Smithy

    Smithy Mega Poster Founding Member

    Hmmmm….so you guys make a dumb ass remark that there couldn’t have been cheating at the grand since we all had the same shells. But Frank didn’t have the hot Petes sent to him. And he never had a GAH win?

    So who was the All American member here that first blew the whistle on the hot Remington shells? One of his shooting pals?
     
  39. Smithy

    Smithy Mega Poster Founding Member

    ebsurveyor - Feb 21 2018 on Americantrapshooter.com

    Can you say AMMO? Frank always shot Remington and before 1987 their ammo sucked. I don't remember any other big guns, back then, that shot Remington. In 1987 Remington started sending some good ammo to Frank. His average jumped that year & stayed up. The last six full years Frank shot his handicap average was about 3% higher than it had been, with one 100 straight. Frank and I discussed, several times, how the NEW Remington ammo had changed handicap shooting. For those same BBC six years Frank's average was 0.8% higher than Leo's & Kay's. Considering that Frank shot lots of targets in the Eastern Zone I would say he did OK. My guess is he would have done very well with the easier targets & voice releases.

    https://www.americantrapshooter.com...d-delegates-see-list-about-hard-targets.4638/
     
  40. Smithy

    Smithy Mega Poster Founding Member

    Again From member ebsurveyor:

    I saved my last box of those green "shipped to the house" shells. After two moves in the past 15 years they got lost. IMO, the good stuff couldn't be bought anywhere. If you wanted it for the Grand you had to bring it from home.
     
  41. Smithy

    Smithy Mega Poster Founding Member

  42. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    I shot those green Remington shells too and in all honesty they really sucked. The fact that Frank shot those and broke all those 99+ averages is a testament to his tremendous ability.no matter what Butch believes.
     
  43. Smithy

    Smithy Mega Poster Founding Member

    And there you have it! Ollie claims to have been a top All American. So good then that Remington was giving this guy free hot ammo. Lie much?
     
  44. Kiehl

    Kiehl Well-Known Member

    And Morgan Fairchild is my wife! Yeah. That’s the ticket.
     
    Flyersarebest likes this.
  45. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    If she was I'm sure Frank found her at least once.
     
    BRAD DYSINGER likes this.
  46. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    Nah, I was never as good as Frank and neither were you.
     
  47. Jersey Giant

    Jersey Giant Active Member

    I wasn’t as good as Frank either. So they didn’t send me shells. Why would they send shells to you? Curious. I didn’t know there was such a program.
     
  48. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    You didn't know Amerigo very well.
     
  49. Ron Burdick

    Ron Burdick Well-Known Member Founding Member

    oleolliedawg:
    Wouldn’t it be great if you could prove the crap that you put out.

    Ron Burdick
     
  50. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    Explain proof! You're old enough to know what went on and if you don't then you must have slept through class. That said, I knew all the individuals mentioned quite well and when someone who wasn't good enough to carry Frank's shellbag posts nonsense I'm quite capable of a response.
     
    Roger Coveleskie likes this.
  51. Roger Coveleskie

    Roger Coveleskie State HOF Founding Member Member State Hall of Fame

    All shell mfgr's had A PROGRAM OF FREE SHELLS TO THEIR FAVORITE SHOOTERS. That said I was a distributor of Remington ammo, targets and made and distributed their trap and skeet machines. The only shells I was aware of that were pumped, were those made for the grand. Any left overs were sold either as regular ammo or at the end of the grand. We are never going to get Smithy to shut up with his rant about frank so lets all put him on ignore. Roger C.