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I've always thought the position a clay is launched was to simulate a boxed bird throwing a live pigeon from ground level? After all, trap shooting...

1. What's the argument that longer arms impart more spin and how was the theory tested? Where? By whom? And how can we find the results? ( I...

Reminds me of the windiest day at one of our past Grand's here in Tucson. It was a Thursday handicap event and the winds were blowing hard as I got...

Bat, it's hard to tell when it comes to cheating our sport and that's what rule violators do. I recall well the first 34 degree angles I shot. How...

Fair enough and good questions too. I will wait to answer those in which I have my own first hand experiences and from from trusted sources. HAP

Leonidas, I know almost nothing concerning other models of traps except the Winchester hand-sets and the Pats. Pat traps have a shorter throwing arm...

"Hap: You are sadly mistaken, you quoted several times before the Pat Traps do not throw enough angles, that they throw more straightaways, as they...

Thank you Bat! I have said prior that there's absolutely nothing wrong with the Pat trap! The Pat trap, due to design, is stymied by our speed limit...

Bat, we can tell your a pretty sharp guy from your answers and questions with your past writings. I may not have addressed your question as you'd...

How ridiculous can that suggestion be when our sport is all about high averages and scores throughout the shooting year? Of course shooters want...

Bat, that's a great question! Speaking of the "integrity" portion of your question is answered by our sports history. Some had it and some didn't....

With our economy in the state it's in, why even suggest we put all clubs in a financial bind in adding more yardage? That's a sure negative toward...

Agreed Roger! Good motor news too!! HAP

I don't believe we should ask all the clubs across the country to add more concrete. I do however firmly believe we should further handicap those...

Rosey, I also believe that same thing. Regardless of shot speeds, it's far easier to shoot behind a target than in front of it!! AND, I've found you...

jmunsell, give Howard Simon a call. He's the most reasonable engraver around. Does a great job too! (815) 478-4966 He will even take thingies on...

FG, just wanted to pretty up the old squirrel gun a little before passing it along to my grandson. I recall hearing others pass by the 27 on the...

Here' a couple pics of my old squirrel gun, before and after a tad of embellishment done by Howard Simon for me. Lotsa birds and squirrels fell in...

When we changed the speed and distance targets should be thrown, no thought was given to exactly how a Pat trap operated. The throwing arm on the Pat...

Fair/Balanced & Unafraid of Tough Targets. ATS Addictions Begin Here. ATS, Fears No Evil. ATS Fears No Competitors. Pick n choose the flavor of...

Roger, 34 degree settings are the absolute minimum/17degrees each side of the straight from post 3. Actually it's 34.xx degrees. Our rule also allows...

Gary, attempting to convince the shooters here or on any other trap shooting discussion site is merely a lesson in futility. I'm probably a lot...

Dave Berlet's post is what was once upon a time known as how others perceived our sport of handicap shooting. That same perception also helped our...

There will be no changes at all to the current presentations, if anything, it will be toward an even easier target! I've made my suggestion for a...

Jo2, yes, you can do just that, speed can be added to a Pat trap to stabilize the targets! According to our rule book that isn't allowed according to...

There's nothing at all wrong with a Pat trap!! Unlike the old traps once used, with a longer throwing arm, Pat traps can throw a great target if not...

Jo2, there's not much wrong with the Pat traps at all except this. On a bluebird day they're fine and dandy. It's when Mother Nature interferes...

The yearly outlines of winning scores needed to win, place or show says nothing about the total scores that were tied to get there at all in any...

N1H1, have you never said there's but very few maximum angles thrown off a Pat trap? (Your's, Pat Ireland's and Neal Crausbay's theory of "not...

It seems my honor, memory, integrity among other facets of posting opinions are in question here for what I've written from memory. Granted, mine...

Since we're trying to get the "average" joes shooting at a much higher level, maybe we should compare the average ATA shooters singles averages of...

Might be a danged good idea to save a post here n there guys? You know, copy it and save it in a file just in case the writer deletes his/her posts a...

Pat traps are here to stay. Easier target presentations are here to stay. Everyone enjoys shooting better scores, always have and always will. So,...

That may be true at the Grand American and other places but not here in Tucson. Bank numbers are drawn each day and if there's a bad bank and there...

Leonidas, not only those of us posting here but nationwide included, none to a very few if they had to shoot all those targets from 5 posts! Our...

Two Dogs, what you write is very true! Everyone loves shooting a great score regardless of ease or difficulty, that's just human nature! If you...

There's a vast difference between one that's earned a "has been there" title and the "neverwillbees". This could turn into a huge fun shoot and...

wishbone, yes, Tucson is an exception! Even the clubs officers that run the shoots shoot all the different banks just like everyone else does! HAP

Shooters may get away with the preferred bank system at the Grand but certainly not here in Tucson at either the Autumn Grand of our Spring Grand....

Uh er,, I'll have a case of Bud please?? :-) Hapster

Motorcycle racing, drag strip racing, registered ATA targets, super shot on SC fields and this, he really excels when you get into some wild assed...

deepbackwoods, you are so correct guy! 44 degree angles off a Winchester hand-set is not the same thing as 44 degree angles off a Pat trap! Should be...

Brian S., the "moment of truth" you speak of is actually your personal timing to a target to actually see, (a bird/bead/barrel relationship)...

You can disagree all you want Gary but I typed nothing but truth in my post above. Yes, I was in Ohio in 1985 but merely on vacation from my job...

I also shot at some of the same targets that Tom Strunk did during that time frame and his voice here is spot on and truthful to a "T"! Why is it...

Sometimes I assist my clubs corporate shoots to introduce newbie's to our game of trap. Normally get there early and get my trap and everything all...

John, I think you're spot on! Those guys may have paid the fees plus handling only without shooting all those targets! That's just my suspicion only....

Nope, never heard of such an animal Andy. No doubt it exists though since it was used as you say! Any shooter wrongly accused of cheating for such...

"There is a small club in Indiana that threw 1½ hole targets, the owner took the hand set traps to a machine shop and had another hole drilled and...