POLL - Punishment for ATA cheaters - And those that overlooked it? POLL

Discussion in 'Trapshooting Forum - Americantrapshooter.com' started by merlo, Dec 18, 2021.

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Should the ATA Punish those that have participated in systemic cheating?

  1. Yes

    48 vote(s)
    85.7%
  2. No

    3 vote(s)
    5.4%
  3. Banish individuals from the sport

    21 vote(s)
    37.5%
  4. Slap on the hands

    2 vote(s)
    3.6%
  5. Putting their names out there is enough

    2 vote(s)
    3.6%
  6. Banish clubs that participated

    10 vote(s)
    17.9%
  7. Pretend it never happened.

    2 vote(s)
    3.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. merlo

    merlo Mega Poster Forum Reporter

    Should punishment be handed out to those that systematically participated in cheating in the ATA? I am asking because the topic has made it’s way to the forum.

    I report. You decide.
    merlo
     
    cl3 likes this.
  2. grizquad

    grizquad Well-Known Member Founding Member

    If an individual has to cheat in a sport then they should find something else to do. If they are caught and found guilty, punishment should be swift, their name should be released, and not allowed to participate for 1 year, and if repeated, banished for life. Just my opinion.
     
  3. Roger Coveleskie

    Roger Coveleskie State HOF Founding Member Member State Hall of Fame

    grizquad, If we had an organization with honest leaders it would happen, We do not, they are as slippery as the cheaters. They knew the rules were not being followed and did nothing to correct them, in fact they enabled them. The B.O.D. is a useless as tits on a boar hog, and the EC's are as bad.
    evil will prevail. when men of honor do nothing to correct it, Roger C.
     
  4. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    I voted for throwing out all those clubs that participated. Trapshooting needs fewer places to shoot and soon without clubs sending in fees the ATA will go bankrupt. I'll start a list.
     
    wpt likes this.
  5. LCH

    LCH Mega Poster Forum Leader

    Curious, what does the current literature say regarding cheating?
     
  6. LCH

    LCH Mega Poster Forum Leader

    I think that is why Macadoo Ridge (West Virignia) no longer holds the WV State shoot.....
     
  7. Ron fisher

    Ron fisher Mega Poster

    What are examples of cheating? (What to look for)
     
    alf174 likes this.
  8. bobski

    bobski USN Retired Range Owner

    illegal shells.
     
  9. LCH

    LCH Mega Poster Forum Leader

    I agree, illegal shells are a no no. BUT in reality, anyone that is going to win an event that is worth talking about is not going to win by way of having faster shells or larger shot size. Checks and balances for sure. But in the world of trapshooting....what is it like (don't quote me, I'm guessing ) 10% of shooters win 90% of the prizes?
     
  10. Roger Coveleskie

    Roger Coveleskie State HOF Founding Member Member State Hall of Fame

    LCH, That is about the average percentage for any game requiring skill. Most shooters shoot to win, but most are not capable. Either by not having the physical dexterity, lack of determination or experience. Roger C.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2021
    Jim Flynn likes this.
  11. bobski

    bobski USN Retired Range Owner

    I was giving just an example.
     
  12. James344

    James344 Well-Known Member

    How about shooters that don't present an updated average card at classification? I believe it's still in the rule book isn't it? Or perhaps the rule about known ability?
     
    grizquad and BRAD DYSINGER like this.
  13. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    The "known ability" rule is reserved for the chosen few.
     
    BOUNDER96 likes this.
  14. BRAD DYSINGER

    BRAD DYSINGER The Philosophist Founding Member Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Member State Hall of Fame

    James344 When I was tournament director for the osta and CC the number of shooters who had an up to date average card was less than half. They all thought it should be in the computer.
     
    oleolliedawg and cl3 like this.
  15. cl3

    cl3 Mega Poster Founding Member

    We have a Past ATA President that doesn't like to shoot at right angles from post 5 when shooting from the 27.
     
  16. IowaShooter

    IowaShooter Well-Known Member

    I vote to punish them and banish them.
    I really cant spend the money and time to shoot for my AVG but for me I ended up in penalty Class and Yardage as my AVG. Is that cheating?
    I don't think it is, but I might be wrong.
    Would I be in trouble if I had a good day and shot Penalty that day and won it? Just asking?
     
  17. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    Depends how you define cheating.
     
  18. ljutic329

    ljutic329 Mega Poster Founding Member

    I don't care if ya shoot 3.25 dram #6.

    Just don't turn down targets because you're looking elsewhere when it's a legal target
     
    HistoryBuff likes this.
  19. Roger Coveleskie

    Roger Coveleskie State HOF Founding Member Member State Hall of Fame

    Iowaguy, If you get yardage while shooting penalty yardage. it is from the penalty yardage not your previous yardage. Roger C.
     
    cl3 likes this.
  20. Jeff Webb

    Jeff Webb Member

    Speaking of the Average card in todays world it should only be used as a personal reference since anyone can look up anyone's averages and yardage either with a phone or computer almost instantly. Yes there is a delay in scores updated if you shoot every weekend but these shooters classification don't change much.
     
  21. cl3

    cl3 Mega Poster Founding Member

    That is correct.
     
  22. Lloyd Reed

    Lloyd Reed Active Member

    I witnessed some..unorthodox ref calls on unshootable targets because the shooter was..too good to have missed that target. I’m not good enough to be in contention so no worries for me but what fun is it to win when you’re asking for and getting considerations because the wind caused the target to dip or lurch? I guess it’s nice not being so uptight that you can’t enjoy the socializing aspect of shooting competition.
     
  23. multifired

    multifired Active Member

    Are you saying he shot at a target, missed it and it was ruled "unshootable" and not ruled lost? Tom
     
  24. Turbine

    Turbine Active Member Past State President

    Lloyd Reed, first note that referees are only used in shoot offs. Second, there is no such thing as an “ unshootable target”. The shooter is not required to shoot at an illegal target, but if he does, the result MUST be scored. If you observed something other than that happening with both the ref and the scorekeeper, I hope you did two things; report it to shoot management, and write a complaint letter to your delegate. See your rule book for the requirements of a complaint letter.
     
  25. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    I think everyone who knowingly shot 2-hole targets and every club manager who set 'em should be permanently banned from the ATA. I hope that includes today's club managers and shooters. We should include every shooter that asks for a reset when the targets are found perfectly legal-wasting time and targets-an additional expense. That should fix the ATA!
     
  26. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member Forum Leader

    Hmm, 10 hours and no bites on the bait.
    Go figure
     
    oleolliedawg likes this.