What is a vendor spot worth at Sparta? All up for highest bidder!

If you are not a vendor you may not know all the permanent vendor spots are up for bid at Sparta.

There could be a shuffling of the deck.

Many vendors have made interior improvements such as gun racks etc. Too bad. All goes to the highest bidder.

I report. You decide.
merlo out

 

Who made this decision?

 

The State of Illinois is in DEEP financial trouble, there is no money for the recreational areas and departments are being slashed to eliminate as much cost as they can ... Sparta was closed all summer according to friends of mine who usually summer there in a camper ... Linn Creek (MTA) is at the top of the list in the event the grand moves or gets moved so the vending spots at WSRC are essentially worthless, along with the camping spots for the future also ...It took 15 years but the grim reaper finally caught up with the facility unless some miracle happens ... The parks and recreational areas used to be a main topic on the State of Illinois web site, now there is not even a mention ... IDNR took major cuts last year and in all probability be faced with Major cuts again ... I have friends and family that live in Illinois, with the tax increases some of that might very well change in the near future ... The democraps hard at work one more time ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

Not only the vendors spots but camping also, I was told ... (not verified) ...

 

Who in their right mind would bid on a vendor spot at Sparta. There most likely will be no customers to sell to in the near future. I think existing vendors can remove their property from there with no problems. Roger C.

 

Your friend was wrong on being closed all summer. The trap, skeet and sporting clays fields were/are open there regular hours. The facility was closed completely for a couple of weeks during the beginning of the pandemic other than that they are open, with a reduced number of shooter allowed at a time. For instance, 50 people allowed to shoot at one time or as the positivity rate increased it was reduced to 25 people at one time per discipline. We had a spring league of 16 teams, summer league of 18 teams, all of our local schools (14) still had their practices, a good fall league of 17 teams which ended right before thanksgiving. We’re currently in a “holding pattern” with a reduced number of 10 people allowed to shoot at one time right now because of the positivity rate in this area. All organized events are not allowed per state requirements at this time. I can’t comment on the vendor buildings as I’m not involved in that process but I know there was a change in the procurement code a few years ago to curb corruption in state procurement. I know there are some rumors about certain vendors being “locked out” of their buildings and that is completely bogus. No locks were changed and vendors can come and go as they please, they have there own keys. I don’t believe they want to shut us down but as a state facility we have to follow the rules. The governor did say early on that once there was a vaccine available we could go back to business as usual and I would like to hold him to it. I know Illinois is a “gun hate” state but that’s what I have to work with. We have managed to get a lot of things done with very little money this year. I know most of you here do not like Sparta but it’s really all about throwing targets and getting more people interested in the sport and having fun. I just need a full year to show that I can make a difference and maybe turn a red into a black(at least on the trap and skeet side). I wouldn’t wish for any gun club to close no matter who owns it, why it was built or who runs it.

 

Time for a little perspective .....

This ..... "I know most of you here do not like Sparta" ..... has reasons I think you do not understand .....

That place was built on lies to fill the pockets of a few self-serving people .....

The "ATA" WAS NOT "forced out of Vandalia", period ..... Look up the text from the meetings that the late graph-master posted here ..... They, the "ATA", leased an extension to the land THEY OWNED, and there was no "guarantee" how much longer that would be available, period ..... NEVER the retold lie "they had to move" from land they, the ATA, OWNED .....

A few power-drunk self-serving people forced the place in BFE down people's throats, and they rejected it, period ..... It has nothing to do with simply "closing down a "Trap Club" .....

Stop reading/believing the lies being told, making them seem as truth being told by some mental-midgets .....

Look up some actual facts before you choose to address those here with regurgitated lies .....

 

I was told by 3 people (not verified) Sparta was closed for the summer, they usually summer there and have since it opened because Arizona and Florida get to hot in the summer months... I find it strange they would say that being as it is their usual summer location, (really don't matter) in actuality I could care less one way or the other ... If you add up all of the teams you mentioned that amount of business will not pay the light bill let alone anything else ... If you work there ( it sounds like you do) the amount of changes needed to make the place a welcome sight goes far beyond throwing targets for leagues ( you probably know that ) if you don't it is in real trouble ... Based on the notice of bidding for spots does not sound to me like the Vendors are being treated fairly, not sure about the camping spots but can tell you if you piss off the Vendors and campers you might just as well lock the place up because they can't draw a crowd for what was once the Grand Daddy of all shooting events and now is not much bigger than a State shoot so don't give up your day job ... All the best and Good Luck you are going to need it ... Pritzger don't even know the facility exists and he probably could care less like most of those who used to attend every year before it moved ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I would like to know what in my comment was a "regurgitated lie"? I was only stating the fact the most of those on this site do not like Sparta. I don't need to be told an explanation again of why, as I have heard it over and over again on this site. I don't particularly care on the why or how at this, the facility is built lets use it until if/when the powers that be close it. I was never a member then, I am a post Vandalia member now and enjoy shooting now with the way things are at the moment. I understand the targets were harder and there was more money, more prestige and all the other things that are constantly brought up. That was then this is now, I'm sure most know or should know that it will NOT change to the way you want it to. No one here has the power to make the ATA change anything. All the letters, FOIA's and calls won't make a difference unless you/we/us/the membership can get some different people in charge that want to see things go back to the way it was. I read most everything that is posted and due my diligence and research most things said, some of which I agree 100% some of which I don't. I catch a lot of flak from folks for being a member here, I always tell them there is 2 sides to every story and I want to hear both. For anyone wanting information about the goings on at the complex, reach out to me. I will be as transparent as I can. I'm not like most follow the leader types.

 

We have had a change in management where as a different division of IDNR is running the campground which should make things more streamlined but the campground was open, most of it gets winterized around the November time and they go down to about 50-100 sites, those are open year round. Leagues are not everything I'm planning to have more shoots this year than previous years, I do agree that with out the Vendors or making the vendors angry is not a good thing. I'm 100% sure he know we exist but much more than that he most likely has no idea of what goes on, but that's not necessarily a bad thing...

 

If you "don't particularly care on the why or how at this" ..... You will NEVER 'change' anything .....

Have you 'caught flack' here, for being a member 'there' ???????

FWIW ..... If ..... "most know or should know that it will NOT change to the way you want it to" ..... What is your point ?????? People are going to travel hundreds of miles and spend days a bunch of money for 'no change' ......

People spend their time and money on what THEY want ..... NOT just a plea to keep a boondoggle alive ..... Good luck, but it may be in your best interest if you don't pass on any 'other' job offers .....

 

You still never answered my question
I would like to know what in my comment was a "regurgitated lie"?

I'm waiting for your answer.

 

If that got your panties in a uncomfortable twist ..... the one and ONLY answer is, you need a different vocation .....

Trying to breathe life into a dead horse you are going to take lumps ..... If that is not for you ..... Give it a rest .....

 

There not in a twist, I just wanted to make sure everyone knows you called me a liar for no reason. Nothing in my comment was a lie. Thanks.

 

OK ..... You need some help .....

We will start here ..... " I can’t comment on the vendor buildings as I’m not involved in that process" .....

And, in the same post ..... "I know there are some rumors about certain vendors being “locked out” of their buildings and that is completely bogus." .....

So tell us how "I’m not involved in that process" turns into ...... "that is completely bogus." ......

Do you know all the Vendors, and have it from them directly, "that is completely bogus." ???????

Give it a rest .....

 

I don’t know all the vendors but I know for a fact that no vendors have been locked out because I would be involved in the process of changing the locks out. I’m not involved with how much they pay and to who and what their contracts say so that’s why I can’t comment on that. I’m just asking you to tell me what in my post was a lie or tell me you spoke incorrectly and what I said was not a lie. It’s that simple.

 

Tell us if the 'Complex' has EVER BEEN 'shut down', thus "Vendors" being "locked out"/ denied access .....

It would be in your best interest to give it a rest ..... "It’s that simple."

 

No, no, no you don't get to change the timeline. We are talking about the current situation not the one from a few years ago and the grand still happened that year, "temporally closed" because if it were SHUT DOWN it would not be open ever. This conversation is about my comments don't try and hijack it for some stuff from years ago. Even then no one was locked out, also even during the pandemic when the complex was closed to the public if a vendor needed in to their building they were still given access. Just tell me that I did not say a lie in my comment and we can be done with this conversation.

 

I will tell you two things ......

You have ZERO chance of having any success, because your personality is too fragile ..... Head custodian has it's limits .....

And, plead your case of being besmirched to 'just joe' ..... he has the power to edit, delete, or anything else he would choose to do if he feels the need ..... The mental-midgets think I am "Joe", but, it is easy to find out I am NOT .....

FWIW ..... Hold your breath waiting, or ..... "we can be done with this conversation" ..... "It’s that simple."

 

Thanks for the offer .....

I doubt if I will be that direction in the near future ..... but, who knows ......

I know some of the "Vendors" ..... heck, I would say I know many of the "Vendors" ..... NOT 'know of', know personally .....

If you ever get to the point that your 'feelings' don't matter, there are many here that have spent their life Trapshooting, and have the many years of wisdom to tell you what does or doesn't work ..... It just takes an open mind, open ears, and some time to sink in .....

It is a shame you chose to ignore most of what was in my posts .....

If setting you off is that simple, your days around Trapshooters will be limited ..... Take that as friendly advice .....

 

You win this round, I would prefer not being called a liar. I will be the better person and walk away today. I have just one last comment to make on this, I know I can't change most peoples minds who are on this site about the complex. I'm sorry you feel screwed over by the ATA. I can't change that. Unless someone steps up and gathers a whole bunch of people with them, things will not change in your favor.

 

Brad M,
You stated that you felt / got the impression people on this site Hate Sparta, that is not true at all ... Sparta is an object that had really no say or reflection in the matter ... The ATA chose to make a move to a place that did not, (could not) pass due diligence and meet the requirements that the ATA paid big money to establish with an outside firm ... The move was essentially made out of desperation because they had no place to hold the grand in their minds ... We all know now that was not true being as they had the last one at Linn Creek in Mo, and or Cardinal Center was up and running before the WSRC was good to go ... To get around not being able to pass due diligence and requirements they decided on a Lease agreement to circumvent what they paid big money to get established ... People do not Hate Sparta, they hate the way it happened, not what happened after all of the polls were tallied and those who responded ( the Majority) to said Polls voted against the relocation to Illinois (Sparta) more so because of the location and lacking of amenities in and around the general area of Sparta proper besides the State not being the most gun friendly state that was available or that should of been considered ... I do not know how long you have been around but this goes back 15 plus years ... You are going to have one hell of a Mountain to climb to show people what they already know is not true any longer ... The WSRC has established it self over the past 15 years and the amount of business ( money) it generates it Pathetic at best ... If you are going to make this all better you should of been there 15 years ago because now is in all probability to late ... Good Luck, you are going to need it and a lot more help and co operation besides luck ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Thank you, but I do believe they hate Sparta and everything about it, which is why most don't attend shoots there. I don't hold grudges. If I did I wouldn't be here. I do enjoy a good "back and forth" but sometimes it feels like I'm talking to one of my democrat friends who only sees things his way or no way. It does get old when everyone rubs it in my face every time I post something, I get to hear the same back story. I have heard it over and over and over again. Nothing will change WSRC's beginnings but we can change its future.

 

After reading that once again, maybe I am a kool-aid drinker... or just really tired.

 

Exactly how much acreage did the ATA Own at the Vandalia facility. I didn't think they owned a lot and the airport owned a bunch. Yes, I was at Vandalia several times. It was a very neat experience, I still have photos and a video I shot all down vendors row while on the trams. Good memories. I also have been to Sparta. They are both something to see but very different from one to the other.

 

I don't believe you are a Kool-Aid drinker. The Kool-Aid drinkers think everything is just grand, pardon the pun, and don't see any problems whatsoever with having what was once the largest Trap shoot in the country turned into just another "mini or satellite grand". Those people live in La La land and think anyone that doesn't think the same way are "haters" or "bashers" as they like to say.

I don't know how many shooters "hate" that place but from the pathetic numbers they have drawn since the move there sure are a lot that just don't like the location and have shown that with their wallets. Can't argue that point no matter how hard they try. Well, they can argue it but it doesn't hold water. The numbers keep hitting them in the face. Forget this years pandemic for a second. If everything was the same as previous years the entries would have been the same abysmal numbers they have been since the move. It won't matter one bit what you or anyone does there, it will never be what the ata claimed. I sure would like to be in one of those budget meetings to hear some of the questions.

That place brought in how much? And what does it cost the state to keep it open?

You on the other hand at least know, or seem to know, that the place is a bust. It never drew the numbers the ata or the state of ILLnews thought it would, and money was what it always was about, and will more than likely close all together some day. Sooner than later I think. Remember, we told them not to go there.

I understand your comments and feelings about that place. YOU WORK THERE. It's your job and the means by which you support yourself. I would expect nothing less from an employee that didn't want to be unemployed. Before I retired a couple of years ago I worked, 50-60 hours a week, every week, for almost four years for a company that paid me very well as a "team lead", AKA foreman. All the benefits, 401K, vacation, pretty much made my own schedule, paid OT out the azz. I never made so much money. And the management SUCKED!

I quit 3 months after I turned 66. I couldn't wait until I could tell them AMF. Which I did with a voicemail from the floor of the casino in Florida where I was using up my last week of the four weeks vacation I had. Told them I wasn't coming back,,,, EVER. I still get phone calls from some of the other foremen that are still there. The said they kept that voicemail and when they are feeling the pressure they play it to get a laugh. I thought that was kinda nice.

The point is just because you have a job that you like, are good at, and pays well, it doesn't mean management doesn't SUCK. You know that saying, You Can't Put Lipstick On a Pig? Well I'm afraid that is what you are stuck with. I sincerely hope for your sake the government in ILLnews can find a way to keep you employed when they finally admit that it was a mistake to build that place and pull the pin. I mean that. I hate to see anyone lose their job. Been there done that when USS decided it didn't need any of us way back in 1982 and we all had to find a new job. I know the feeling. BTW, the year I got laid off? I still made the Grand.

As one of the earlier posters said, if a job opportunity comes up don't just blow it off.

Good Luck

 

Anyone can bid on a building contract you may not be able to use. In a gun hating state. Gee. What could go wrong?

Or you can get a spot at the Cardinal Center that shows growth.

 

I get a chance to talk to a lot of shooters, friends I have made over the years from being involved with Trap shooting ... A side from "Election Fraud" the conversation usually turns to the clubs, ATA, price of targets, shells and so forth ... I have not had the pleasure of attending a shoot at Cardinal Center yet but it is on my bucket list and I have intentions of doing so in the near future, I have never felt that way about attending a shoot at the WSRC even though I was from Illinois in another life ... There are a lot of shooters who used to attend the grand on a regular basis back as far as when it was in Vandalia, many of them have ventured to the WSRC a few times because it was "The grand" and most of them have the opinion it is just not the same any more besides lacking of the amenities people get used to having when they attend shoots without excessive driving to and from ... The Shooters who have attended shoots at the Cardinal Center have high praise and opinions of the facility, amenities, staff, HOF, and all the things that make a shoot, an enjoyable shoot ... There are a few who voiced a concern that Cardinal Center may in the future out grow it self based on the progress over the years ... The WSRC has a long, long way to go before that would be a concern based on the attendance figures compiled over the years ... ( Location, Location, Location ) ... The WSRC is at best a guesstimate being as no body knows for sure what is going on with the place and what the State of Illinois might decide to do or not do next ... They built a facility second to none that lacks the most important things that surround a shoot, amenities in and about the general area ... Build it in the wrong place and they won't come, there you have proof positive ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

People trying to accomplish something where others have failed is not a bad thing .....

But ..... "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again-expecting different results." Albert Einstein

"Nothing changes when nothing changes" ~ unknown

Heck ..... put in Golf Cart/ATV/UTV Race tracks, oval and 300 ft straight line ..... Maybe a Motocross style track also ..... At the very least, you may keep the kids from racing in the parking lots and running over people ......

 

The ATA owned a little over 40 acres and had the right to buy another 55 or so that the school district owned to the east of the last eastern trap field. That school closed and sole the ground. Now there is nothing.

Les Wexner offered to build the ATA a home grounds just west of Columbus Ohio and lease it to the ATA for 33 years then sell it to them for a buck. He was going to build all the infrastructure, vendor buildings, office buildings, traps, parking, camping, everything.

In case non of you know who Les is he and his mother were both in the top 10 riches people in Ohio and still be for all i know. He has given The Ohio State University over 200 million dollars for the Hospital named after him. He is a trap shooter and loved trap shooting. I've met him and talked to him and his money man. The ATA didn't even say no thank you to him they just ignored the offer like it never was. Good going guys.

Thank you Jim Bradford and company. Sparta isn't what we hate, it's the ass holes it represents. The good folks of
Sparta had no idea what they were getting. We in Ohio are much better off with the grand being in Illinois, we do pretty much what we want to. I'm hoping we can get Illinois to take our idiot gov next. How bout it. Please.

 

Here ..... https://americantrapshooter.com/ind...graph-lose-everyday-shooters.5635/#post-49785 ..... post # 73 says ..... "The ATA owns approximately 59 acres adjacent to the south side of the Airport and leases a portion of the Airport for activities related to various shooting events." .....

And ..... "To date, the City of Dayton and the Airport have not asked the ATA to leave. Neither previous Airport Directors nor the previous City Managers told the ATA to leave or that the lease would be ended." .....

Some mental-midgets in cyber-never-never land are trying to say the ATA never owned property in Vandalia ..... Others keep telling the regurgitated lie that "the ATA had to move, and Sparta was the only option" .....

 

If I were selling guns, the Perazzi building has the most cabinet work I hear. These places might be had for pennies on the dollar.

 

Is Gipson’s building up for bid?

 

Brad M, The cost for many of us westerners to attend the Grand in Sparta is betweed $4000.00 and $5000.00 for the 10 day shoot. We never complained about that, but when we know that it was a mistake made by the EC and that there is nothing to do there after shooting we set back and say we can get better enjoyment from quite a few different trap clubs around the country for the same expediture.
The people in charge of the move thought they were the smartest people in the room. THEY WERE NOT. The members of the ATA are the ones paying for their dumb mistakes.
They all received their reward of a free gun and travel. Those are the things we know about. There purchasing of equipment and buildings leaves a lot that has never been revealed. It is hard to have faith in people that you can not trust. Look at ther hall of fame building, that sure did not endear the members did it? Roger C.

 

George Schultz at 100: Trust Must Be Coin of the Realm

Former US Treasury Secretary and Secreatry of State George Schultz testifies before the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee 29 February, 2000. (Mario Tama /AFP via Getty Images)
By Eric Mack | Sunday, 13 December 2020 01:43 PM


On his 100th birthday, former Secretary of State George Schultz outlines the 10 ways in which "trust is the coin of the realm" in an opinion piece Sunday for the Washington Post.

"Dec. 13 marks my turning 100 years young," Schultz, who served under former President Ronald Reagan. "I've learned much over that time, but looking back, I'm struck that there is one lesson I learned early and then relearned over and over: Trust is the coin of the realm.

"When trust was in the room, whatever room that was — the family room, the schoolroom, the locker room, the office room, the government room or the military room — good things happened. When trust was not in the room, good things did not happen. Everything else is details."

His life-lesson missive outlined the 10 ways he learned about the value of trust.

1. Family
   • "My early boyhood memories underlined the joy of family closeness and how it creates powerful bonds of trust."
2. Country
   • "During World War II, I served in the Pacific theater in a Marine outfit that included a sergeant named Palat. I have forgotten his first name, but I have never forgotten the respect and admiration — the deep-seated trust — that he inspired. When Palat was killed in action, it brought home to me more than ever how pitiless war can be."
3. Work
   • "I saw how Joe [Scanlon] rebuilt bonds of trust between the workers and management that had been frayed or broken. Ultimately, both sides benefited, as did the country."
4. Race
   • "Black workers from a closed plant in Kansas City had seniority claims on the new jobs. In that era of great racial friction, trouble might have been expected. Yet the town's civic leaders made it clear to us: Black families would be welcomed."
5. Law
   • Former Attorney General John Mitchell brought trust to legal battles over segregation: "Mitchell growled, 'I am attorney general, and I will enforce the law.' Then he left. No nonsense. Opponents of school segregation could trust the administration."
6. Politics
   • On President Richard Nixon bridging differences: "I knew the president and trusted that he would rise to the occasion — and he did."
7. Diplomacy
   • At a World War II memorial in Leningrad: "Facing the cemetery, I raised my best Marine salute, and [Soviet foreign trade minister] Patolichev thanked me for the show of respect. Later on, to my surprise, I found that I had earned the trust of Soviet leaders as a result of this visit."
8. Personal connections
   • On advice from President Reagan: "Telling a story, he made me understand, helps make your case in a way that no abstraction can: A story builds an emotional bond, and emotional bonds build trust.'
9. Foreign Policy
   • "Reagan's famous formulation: Trust, but verify. The agreement was self-bolstering, because successful verification enhanced the sense of trust, and greater trust promoted verification."
10. Faith
    • "'In God we trust.' Yes, and when we are at our best, we also trust in each other. Trust is fundamental, reciprocal and, ideally, pervasive. If it is present, anything is possible. If it is absent, nothing is possible. The best leaders trust their followers with the truth, and you know what happens as a result? Their followers trust them back. With that bond, they can do big, hard things together, changing the world for the better."

 

AMEN This should be mandatory reading for the E.C. and the total B.O.D. Most are to dence to understand what the man is saying. Roger C.

 

Brad M,
I have no doubt your intentions are in the purest form nothing less than all good and in the best interest of the shooters and of course the facility but you have to consider the facility had established the numbers you have to deal with over the past 15 years ... This is not your fault, Monica's fault or anyone else who has been involved with the facility, plain and simple it is the location and lacking of amenities in the general area besides the additional traveling to and from the places people have found to stay ...,.Do not take any of it as a personal attack on you or your good intentions, its just telling it like it is and it has to be accepted as such ... The ATA makes money but the land lord (State of Illinois ) adds to the deficit each and every years the facility stays in operation which equates to bad business practice if and when it cannot break even once all of the bills are paid ... I think from a business sense you got involved in something that is an established mess that was never a viable asset to the State, (State of Illinois added 23 million to the States deficit in 15 years ) Sparta, IDNR, and any and all of the others involved ... For the Grand to prosper and be the draw it once was it will have to be moved from the WSRC to another facility with amenities not for a year but for many years to come ... Good Luck ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

All bickering aside. Lol.

I spoke with Michelle Gunterman today. She is with the IDNR. She says all the vendor buildings are up for bid regardless of whether last year’s vendors paid for last year.

And why wouldn’t americantrapshooter.com not want to place a bid on the building that was previously Dawson’s or even the Perazzi building. It is an open bid.

 

DO THEY HAVE A MINIUM BID IN PLACE? If not bid $5.00 have some one else bid $10.00. you may have to have two or more bids to qualify. When do the bids have to be paid for? Roger C.

 

Mr. Dysinger, we here in Illinois would like to help you on your offer to take your Governor. Unfortunately, we already have a total dumbass for Governor already and can't see how a trade would benefit either of us. We kinda want Kristi Noem from So. Dakota but I don't think that's gonna happen.

 

bpd20 Our Ohio Senate and House is going to pass an extended Stand Your Ground Law. Ohio's Stand your ground law today says that you can use deadly force in your home or car without facing criminal charges. The new law will say any place that you are legally at that you can carry a gun you don't have to run first and shoot after. Stand your ground will me stand your ground.

If you have extra BLM or Commie Antifi rioters in Chi town send them to Ohio. I'd suggest Paulding County would be a good place to start. Just follow US 30 until you hit Ohio. My friends and I are waiting. Merry Christmas all.

And how much is a vendor building worth at Sparta. Nothing if they don't have a trap shoot. That's my bid. 1 cent.

 

In news today. Illinois to cut $700 million from the state budget this year. This can't be good! If you read the article the amount of debt in Illinois is staggering. 141 billion in defunded pensions alone notto mention all the other stuff. One step above junk bond rating. Lived in Illinois most all of my life (southern part). Beautiful country, nice folks here but politically, it sucks.

 

The Vendor spots at the WSRC are useless worthless holes in the wall if there is no way to utilize them and at least break even which means there would have to be people attracted to the place for one reason or another, one would assume a trap shoot based on the lay out ... The place has not been able to draw more than a good sized state shoot so has established the generated income over the past 15 years based on attendance ... Put a fork in it, it's done ... If the changes needed to increase the attraction has not been done or worked on by now there is not much left any one could do to change the reputation ... Illinois is going down fast, losing residents fast due to the changes and tax increases on an annual basis ... Illinois is tapped out ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

When Leo and I were traveling and shooting we shot Illinois a lot. The Illinois State Shoot over July 4th at Mather's in Springfield was always one of my top shoots every summer. I shot a lot of live birds in Illinois and did a little hunting. I was amazed with the different attitudes of the Chicago trap shooters. They knew they livid in a shit hole state but seemed to accept it with some kind of resign that it's just the way it is; I don't see that attitude here in Ohio, I think we will fight for our freedom, It's too bad Illinois didn't put up more of a fight. There is no way your state can pay back 141 billion just by cutting 700 million.

 

True, there is no way that Illinois digs out of this debt just like there is no way the USA digs out of a 26 Trillion dollar debt.
Now they want to have a stimulus of up to 4 Trillion dollars. Ridiculous. This is to line their pockets and bail out the states like Illinois and California and now the Dems have the tools to do it with Jo and the Ho in charge. We don't have a money problem, we have a spending problem. I can't understand why some vendors would sell to the state knowing you may not get paid. Guess I just don't know high finance too well.

 

I stand corrected. Our national debt is now almost 27 1/2 Trillion dollars.

 

bpd20. And your state has an over abundance of ignorant voters. They keep making the same mistakes every election day. Crooked politicos rely on stupidity and greed to stay in office. Are you related to semper? Roger C.

 

What is a vendor spot worth at Sparta? Asked Merlo

I can't answer the question today, but to help readers understand what it took to lease vendor buildings when the World Shooting & Recreational Complex was being built, below are redacted partial lease agreements for both the 20' x 40' and the 40' x 40' buildings.

Hope this helps.

HB

​

 

Thank you HB, as usual you are the man ... Hope all is well ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Not that it matters ..... but on the 20x40 lease it says "2.1 Rent" ... "agrees to pay $30,000" ... Then has four(4) $10,000 'installments' ..... Sparta math ????? or I am missing something ?????

 

2.1 Lessee agrees to pay $60,000 for a 40'x40' building space at the complex.

First payment is $22,500 and then $9,375 each year for the next 4 years for a total of $60,000.

 

My new personal code is that I will not travel to any state that voted for Biden no matter fairly or cheating. So they couldn't pay me to get a spot at Sparta. Illinois and the ATA made their own mess so don't blame this buckeye if I just set here and enjoy the results.

 

The Vendor spots at the WSRC sure don't look like a worth while investment at any price when the State has a budget deficit of 3.9 Billion hanging over their heads which probably boils down to no increase to IDNR or recreational areas for needed maintenance ... Pritzger wants 700 million in budget cuts and intends to eliminate many services that are much higher on the list than Parks and recreation (State Workers : IDNR) ... This does not look good for the home team kids, but is typical of the operational proceedings of the State of Illinois ... It don't look like they would even have money to Bulldoze the place if it comes down to that, like they did Meigs Field ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT, call me Roger C.

 

"Congressional negotiators largely have slashed significant new budget aid for cash-strapped cities and states as they rush to assemble a $900 billion coronavirus relief bill, a decision that has left mayors and governors nationwide bracing for another major economic blow.

Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker speaks in Springfield on Sept. 21. On Tuesday, Pritzker announced roughly $700 million in budget cuts, saying the states faces a $3.9 billion shortfall fueled by the pandemic. (Justin L. Fowler/AP)
The critical omission arrived as mayors in New Orleans and San Francisco, and governors in states including New York and Illinois, have sounded fresh alarms in recent weeks about the perils of sustained inaction by Washington — warning that they may face no choice but to raise taxes, lay off public-sector workers or cut spending on critical government programs to break even entering next year.

In Illinois, meanwhile, Gov. J.B. Pritzker (D) on Tuesday announced $700 million in early, anticipated budget reductions in an attempt to close a staggering $4 billion deficit projected to hit his state over the next two fiscal years. Like many governments, Illinois faces the prospect of steep shortfalls in tax revenue resulting in part from the restrictions it has imposed to stop the spread of the coronavirus and protect its public-health system. Pritzker said he had started speaking to local union leaders about furloughs, too"

Yep, nothing to worry about here. Everything is moving in a fantastic direction.

 

The worst part is that our ATA leaders ignored the list of requirements necessary for relocation which was supported by the polling of the membership.

They relocated to Sparta in spite of all indicators pointing to "troubled waters" in the future.

From ATA minutes

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Poll of Membership

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Yep, forget about all those important requirements we mentioned before, ie. driving distance, gun friendly state, hotels & restaurants, local airport and owning our facility. They are no longer of importance . . . . . lets move operations to southern Illinois.

Oh, and what about the possibility of lower attendance for the Grand American Handicap?

Well, the annual tournament has actually been more profitable with the move. The additional events have also helped.

However, they were cognizant of the very real possibility of declining participation.

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Enjoy Our History !

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From ATA minutes

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[/QUOTE]
I seem to recall the ATA spent a tidy sum of money with an Independent Locating Firm (relocating) to seek and find a suitable place to meet all of the established wants, needs, and desires (Due Diligence ) to keep the ATA, the Members, on an even keel with what they had for many years only better ... The Site in Sparta did not ( could not ) pass the Due Diligence so the ATA opted for a lease agreement, then MOI,MOU, then hand shake, to circumvent the established conditions of Due Diligence that was costly to arrive at for the sake of the Association and membership ... The ATA sold out the members on more then one occasion and yet today they got all sort of inside deals in place to maintain a corrupt leadership of said Organization ... God only know how many friends and family are on the payrolls of the ATA at this time and exactly how much the members are getting ripped off for on an annual basis ...
How do we as members (Life Members ) get an up to date list of all those employed or getting paid by the ATA as well as benefits and what the pay is ..? There was a time when Life Members would get that report on an annual basis, which stopped for some reason many years ago ... The time has come for the members (annual and Life Members) have to say enough is enough and push back until we get answers not some BS story ... The EC, ED, and many on the BOD are corrupt to the point you would think they were politicians ... I don't know where or how but this has got to be stopped post haste for the betterment of the Association or they will make off with all of the assets and there won't be anything left to fight over ... WPT ... (YAC) ...