Does anyone know how much heat is generated when a 209 shotgun primers fires? I have ask Win. Rem. And Federal and they said they do not know. Help please. Roger C.
I do not know but feel the primer would create an arc used to ignite the gun powder which in turn would burn and create the chamber pressure behind the wad and propel the shot and wad down and out of the barrel ... The "Flash Point (ignition)" of the powder burning would generate the most heat after being ignited by the arc set off by the primer ...? Its not something I ever thought of but is an interesting question ... There must be some charts and or graphs that would show the start to finish of the shot gun shell ignition ( go bang), trip down the barrel, and into or in the vicinity of the target ... The Big question is does it matter and why ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...
Hi Bill, I have been asked to work on a problem that is a problem for shooters. Some hnw I must find out how hot it gets when the primer and powder ignites. The chart and graph maker is not happy with me so I dare not ask for a favor. I was B S ing with two old foundry men one time and the question came up, how do you know when the metal is ready to pour? One said to the other, (you stick your finger in it) That will not work for me. Roger C.
Roger, The "Flash Point" (ignition) of the powder burning (burn rate) should be available from one of the manufactures of same, I would think .... Google maybe ..? Great question ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
Roger, I googled it , says 160/170 degrees C ... WPT ... (YAC) ... The Initiation, Burning and Thermal Decomposition of Gunpowder J. D. Blackwood, F. P. Bowden Published 8 July 1952.DOI: 10.1098/rspa.1952.0127 Article Info & Metrics eLetters PDF Abstract This paper describes an experimental study of the initiation of burning in gunpowder and of the way in which this develops and grows to explosion. There is evidence that initiation is due essentially to the formation of local hot spots; these may be formed by the adiabatic compression of air pockets, by the friction of grit particles and in other ways. The necessary temperature for these hot spots is remarkably low (ca. 130 degrees C) but it is sufficient to melt the sulphur. It is suggested that the formation of a liquid phase is important and that the process starts with the reaction of molten sulphur with the oxyhydrocarbons present in the charcoal. These oxyhydrocarbons which can be extracted from the charcoal with a suitable solvent, melt at a low temperature and can also provide a liquid phase. A high pressure is necessary before these reactions can proceed at a sufficient rate. A study is made of the way in which the initial reactions develop until the heat evolved is sufficient to start the main reaction, which is the oxidation of carbon by potassium nitrate. There is evidence that the acceleration of the initial reaction which leads up to the rapid burning is controlled by the oxyhydrocarbons present in the charcoal. High-speed camera studies show that the gunpowder grains themselves burn comparatively slowly in a layerwise fashion and suggest that the rapid propagation of the reaction from grain to grain is due to the emission of a hot spray of molten droplets of potassium salts. No need to thank me ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
Does it sound reasonable that the max. temp. in a shot shell is only 170 degrees? At the time of ignition. Roger C.
Celsius = Fahrenheit 310 °C =590 °F 305 °C =581 °F 300 °C =572 °F 295 °C =563 °F 290 °C =554 °F 285 °C =545 °F 280 °C =536 °F 275 °C =527 °F 270 °C =518 °F 265 °C =509 °F 260 °C =500 °F 255 °C =491 °F 250 °C =482 °F 245 °C =473 °F 240 °C =464 °F 235 °C =455 °F 230 °C =446 °F 225 °C =437 °F 220 °C =428 °F 215 °C =419 °F 210 °C =410 °F 205 °C =401 °F 200 °C =392 °F 195 °C =383 °F 190 °C =374 °F 185 °C =365 °F 180 °C =356 °F 175 °C =347 °F 170 °C =338 °F 165 °C =329 °F 160 °C =320 °F 155 °C =311 °F 150 °C =302 °F 145 °C =293 °F 140 °C =284 °F 135 °C =275 °F 130 °C =266 °F 125 °C =257 °F 120 °C =248 °F 115 °C =239 °F 110 °C =230 °F 105 °C =221 °F 100 °C =212 °F 95 °C =203 °F 90 °C =194 °F 85 °C =185 °F 80 °C =176 °F 75 °C =167 °F 70 °C =158 °F 65 °C =149 °F 60 °C =140 °F 55 °C =131 °F 50 °C =122 °F 45 °C =113 °F 40 °C =104 °F 35 °C =95 °F 30 °C =86 °F 25 °C =77 °F 20 °C =68 °F 15 °C =59 °F 10 °C =50 °F 5 °C =41 °F 0 °C =32 °F -5 °C =23 °F -10 °C =14 °F -15 °C =5 °F -20 °C =-4 °F -25 °C =-13 °F -30 °C =-22 °F -35 °C =-31 °F -40 °C =-40 °F -45 °C =-49 °F -50 °C =-58 °F -55 °C =-67 °F -60 °C =-76 °F -65 °C =-85 °F -70 °C =-94 °F -75 °C =-103 °F -80 °C =-112 °F -85 °C =-121 °F -90 °C =-130 °F WPT ... (YAC) ...
Got a very informative response. Today, from an expert. I will still take more. Roger C. PS SAAMI , wished me luck in my endeavor.
The Larger Flash holes Ignite Slow burning Powder Best. The Primer Chart in the IMR Loading Manual had them listed, the Hottest was the Federal 209A, The Old Alcan 209 used to be the best for Magnum Powders, There is a name for the Primer Burn, Damn it slips my memory. The IMR Loading manual listed it Does Brisness sound right?. Gary Bryant.....................................Dr.longshot
Doc, I am trying to find out the temp of the gases that eject back onto the firing pin when the primer is penetrated. Roger C.
From US patents that have been filed for ammunition priming compounds : lead styphnate type priming compositions which result in toxic exhaust compounds typically exhibit flame temperatures 2900 to 3400 degrees K. strontium nitrate in the specified ratios with diazodinitrophenol and selected fuels results in a primer composition with a flame temperature of about 3050 degrees K. These temperatures are all over 5000 degrees F. However, it may be difficult to assess how much the flame actually affects the firing pin as the flame would probably be largely spent before the rather slow moving firing pin penetrated the primer cup. https://www.google.com/patents/US4963201
