As Anticipated, It's "Anywhere but Ohio"

There's a realization in certain corners of Trap that Sparta was a horrible idea and may not last as ATA's home.

In a measure of saving face, there is currently a visible growth of an idea to move the Grand to the substantial and well known San Antonio shooting facility.

No doubt, San Antonio is a fine facility, but San Antonio is nowhere near the body of Trapshooters, and they know this. In the last gasp of not admitting they're wrong, the Sparta supporters desperately want to deny their opponents the satisfaction of knowing they were right, all along, in saying the Grand should never have left Ohio.

The incipient rallying cry seems to be emerging as "Anywhere but Ohio." If the Grand moves back to Ohio, in a move that really makes a lot of sense, Tyson will have to go to full production for all the eggs that will be on the faces of the Sparta supporters.

Be on the guard for more self-destructive actions undertaken solely for the sake of keeping the Grand out of Ohio.

 

"Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." Galatians VI.

 

Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and the door shall be opened unto you!

 

Beware of prophets in sheep's clothing....

The name of the shoot is meaningless. I doubt too many from Ohio or PA care. They have 4 huge shoots between PA and OH. The ATA could fold tomorrow and PA and OH would still do well....maybe better.

 

Pennsylvania, Ohio and the PITA states wouldn't notice if the Grand vanished. In PA and OH, there is so much shooting near some cities, you can shoot every night of the week in a different club.

Still, it would be nice if Trap had a championship meet.

 

Most Ohioans and PA shooters feel they have that. Sparta had nothing on the PA or OH shoots.

It will be warm in San Antonio the first week of August. Best of luck with that move.

 

Grand in Ohio go in a minute.
Grand in Sparta maybe at best.
Grand in Texas never going .

 

The WSRC for now is still operational, for how long is anyones guess depending on the outcome of the Political tug of war ... The ATA (EC) should be putting together a plan "B" just in case any stability thats left goes away with the Politico's in the State of Illinois ... "IF" there is a shut down lets hope some common sense is applied and all things considered before making another move ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Location is one of the most important things for anything to succeed .... But .... The "Grand" has other baggage that may be equal to, if not greater than 'location'.

Has everyone 'moved-on' from 'target-gate' that 'not much' was done to anyone, or for future preventions ???

A location change will not 'do much' to attract those the ATA has lost because their reasons for leaving still exist.

A location change WITHOUT a mass reorganization will NOT make the "Grand" .... be grand again.

Where you go matters ... WHY you go is the most important. All American points and walking in the shadow of the Trap-Gods will only draw a small crowd ANYWHERE.

 

Should be consulting Truck Lines to get best prices for loading and shipping Pat Traps & HOF merchandise.

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

Planning ahead would be like accepting the fact that something is going to happen ... Never needed before, why do it now, what could go wrong ..? The silence is speaking volumes about the ATA (EC) and how it views the importance of the membership or their opinions ... The EC and BOD will NEVER (as in NEVER) admit they made a mistake about anything that has happened (past, present) or that will happen in the future ... The Members who didn't show up and support the ATA (Grand American) will surely be part of the blame game, which is pretty much the Nature of the Beast ... It will really be interesting to see what happens and how its handled by the all knowing and ever present people in charge ... The Founding Fathers of the ATA have to be rolling over in their graves for the past 10 / 15 years ... Wait and see what happens, at this point its all we can do ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Would be interesting to see, by numbers of members, where center of trap shooting really is.... my bet West Virginia or Maryland would be more well greeted by general public than Sparta.

 

NW You have first hand Knowledge on your Bible Quote,

 

If the Grand moves it is likely to be "Anywhere but Ohio."

No one should be surprised by this.

Me I would go anywhere, I just like to shoot the Grand.

See you in Sparta in August.

So few on this board even shoot registered targets It shouldn't be an issue.

 

Wishbone
Where is it going to be? I was hoping San Antonio. You must experience San Antonio in the summer. It is like Arizona in the summer.

News is this year isn't anymore certain than next year. Are you sure about Sparta?

 

Everyone should be surprised by this.

 

I don't have a crystal ball so I plan to shoot in Sparta until the lease runs out.

If I am wrong I will get to try out a new venue. It is all good. I don't have any inside information on a proposed move.

I am sure I will be in Sparta, I have to be in St Louis for a day with or without the shoot.

If there is no shoot I am unlikely to spend a lot of time in Sparta.

 

I live in Phoenix, If San Antonio is anything like Phoenix in August they better stock up on body bags.

 

I've got many clubs within 30 minutes, and one club within a mile of me that's open 7 days a week. Shoot all the targets I want, without Sparta.

 

I do not. Want to see the grand leave Sparta. I really enjoy my ten days at the Hunt Club that I stay at. It covers over thirteen thousand acres, three thousand plus is water.. I can fish and just relax there. The deer are numerous and large so are the fish. If it goes to any place but Ohio I think it will be another bad mistake. My personal opinion is the decisions made by the ATA officials in the last fifteen years have greatly disrupted the organization and I am not sure the people in line to to follow them are any more astute at decision making. It seems we have to many self servers in our midst. Roger C oveleskie

 

Well, I will say this, my opinion only, of course. Americantrapshooters.com has given the few shooters who even know this site and fewer still who care about it, such a negative picture (which is think is unfair, in general, except that Family Guy recently crowed about shooters from Ohio boycotting Sparta) of Ohio that I really doubt that the rest of the members of the ATA who know what goes on here have any interest in attending a Grand in Ohio whatever. Of course, should it actually happen at we be ousted from Sparta, what happens next will have to be a business decision, just as the move to Sparta was. The future will be the responsibility of the then-sitting BOD which is have to follow the By-laws. If Ohio makes the best business sense, I suppose we will go along with it.

As a friend and I were discussing just today, if anericantrapshooters.com does not represent the feelings of rank & file ATA members in Ohio and Pennsylvania, why to they not try to counter it here?

N1H1

 

Your angry predilection preceded the thread, thus it was no great matter of clairvoyance to publish it.

At least you've been honest in your ultimate intention, if utterly dishonest in your motivation. Your animus with Ohio is about keeping a plate of Eggs Benedict off your face and not having to admit you were wrong, years ago, when people in places in Trap that preceded these lands told you that Sparta was a very bad idea.

"Business," is it? Was Sparta about "business," or something else?

The obvious answer is that it's not their job, isn't it? I wonder what presented here is so anathema to Trap? I call for harder targets. That's a position the larger shooting world accepts, but many here do not support. Others call for more concrete. That position is certainly a legitimate one, even if I do not share it. Many here think Sparta is remote, dull and inconvenient. This seems to be an objective assessment rather than mere preference. What possibly occurs here that you claim needs to be vociferously disputed by the Ohio and Pennsylvania regiments?

You, however, have stood for several noxious positions that others made no effort to counter, indeed, sided with you and exiled your critics. You never once demanded that your critics be returned to the floor.

 

N1H1....if you would not mind, please copy and paste that. I cant seem to find that crowing part.

 

Well, you apparently wisely erased it, after someone pointed out that no one had ever admitted that before. Frankly, I had never considered that possible until then - that any group of ATA members would intentionally try to torpedo the future of the ATA - but there it was.

N1H1

 

Stop it please N1H1. I am laughing so hard I am going to bust a gut muscle.

If you look closer to all my posts you may find where I said that Ohio shooters boycotted Vandalia after the announcement.
Not that facts are important to you.

You statement makes no sense.

 

There what was? What are you blubbering about? What posts? Have you had a stroke?

 

Of course you did, FG. You just erased it, that's all.

But really it makes no difference, as I said. ATA shooters - few as they are - who are aware of what is being written here are so turned off by americantrapshooters.com that even were the BOD were to conclude that, if they cannot stay at Sparta, the BOD should decide that Ohio makes the best business sense, many would decide to do something else. There are plenty of things in our lives other than the Grand, after all. But still, all of us who understand the situation will accept the majority vote of the BOD as the best deal that could be secured at the time. That's the way things have to be done.

N1H1

 

You say it makes no difference and then continue to blubber incoherently. Blubbering about a statement you cant find and never existed.

What does that mean?

And to you the past decisions by these people have made a lot of business sense?

 

While you can't find Family Guy's post about "crowing," the above quote has you dead to rights on crowing about boycotting Ohio.

Pot, meet kettle.

 

Strange isn't it Neil that when you quoted me you could not find the post to quote when you made the statement.

I am not talking about after I challenged your accuracy.

 

I don't think Ohio shooters are generally boycotting Sparta. Some might, just because Illinois is a lousy gun state, but such sentiments would be held by shooters in other states, as well. If shooters from Ohio (or any other state) aren't going, it's because the location isn't a draw.

Would an Ohio location be a draw?

 

N1H1--your two statements are in conflict. You said:
all of us who understand the situation will accept the majority vote of the BOD as the best deal that could be secured at the time.

And you made a conflicting statement:
the BOD should decide that Ohio makes the best business sense, many would decide to do something else.

You are illogical at best and incoherent. You are implying the BOD would not and has not made proper decisions. If so, I might agree.

 

Where are the Ohio shooters that support the ATA and it's aims? Aren't there any? If some website were constructed to make Minnesota shooters look like total jerks, the majority would scramble to drown them out. Here? Not a word.

Is there really no opposition in Ohio to what is being presented as "Ohio thinking" on americantrapshooter.com? None? No one that appreciates the years the ATA was here, supplied a venue for your State Shoot, put Vandalia on the map, put state citizens to work so they eat, eat, live, and pay taxes? When I went the Cardinal Center in 2008 I met a lot of presumed Ohioans and and not one even remotely resembled the crowd here. I think that the loyal ATA shooters in Ohio, and I know they are in the vast, vast, majority, have a job to do here, on this site, americantrapshooter.com You know who these guys are. Tell your friends; point them out at shoots as the ones giving the rest of you a bad name, the ones ensuring that the ATA will never, ever, come back. Tell us who they are.

How could the ATA possibly consider Ohio as a home if americantrapshooter.com fairly represents the attitudes of shooters there? There must be far more, far louder, many times more eloquent voices than all these non-shooting pissers and moaners. Let's hear them!

N1H1

 

I should have been more clear as you pointed out, tarpmaker. Let me make a correction:

The BOD should decide that Ohio makes the best business sense, many present attendees happy at Sparta would decide to do something else. After all, no matter where the ATA might someday be forced, perish the thought, to decamp to, it would be a huge letdown compared to what we have become accustomed to no matter where. 1001 campsites, perfect parking, 120 traps, $3 per event. What can ever compete with that?

N1H1

 

No N1H1
You were very clear when talking about the BOD whom you seem to represent and profess to know so well. You wrote:

all of us who understand the situation will accept the majority vote of the BOD as the best deal that could be secured at the time.

and the conflicting statement..........

if the BOD should decide that Ohio makes the best business sense, many would decide to do something else.

N1H1 you have given the ATA and the BOD a blackened eye far worse than a year of negative posts on this site could have ever done.

 

Oh come on, tarpmaker!

Here's what I wrote:

"But really it makes no difference, as I said. ATA shooters - few as they are - who are aware of what is being written here are so turned off by americantrapshooters.com that even were the BOD were to conclude that, if they cannot stay at Sparta, the BOD should decide that Ohio makes the best business sense, many would decide to do something else."

The referent of "many" is clearly "ATA shooters," not the BOD, since the word "many" can only refer to plural nouns, not the BOD, which is singular. So why don't you just get off your mythical high horse and cut the phony horror.

N1H1

 

No N1H1

I copied and pasted exactly. You used BOD as the people that would be making the decision. It is quite clear. The context I quoted was correct.

You have made it clear you are the expert on the BOD. You gave them a black eye that is well deserved.

 

Trapshooters are required to be loyal to their sport, not the governing body. Surely, Neil, you aren't arguing that the governing body is the sport, are you?

After at least four decades of boneheaded moves, the league office of Trap deserves all the upbraiding and chastising it's getting from the fans of the sport.

This is a sports forum. Grow a thicker skin, or get out of sports.

Look at the threat. Shame on you, Neil. Your threat takes this form: Either Ohio shooters support the ATA and not criticize the ATA, or the Grand is never coming to Ohio.

Shame on you. This is a sports. Grow a thicker skin, or get out of sports. In sports, the league office is criticized, all the time.

And what an imbecilic "argument." The measure of success of an annual shoot is the number of shooters who participate in it. The attitudes, manners or deference of the shooters toward the governing body during the annual shoot is utterly irrelevant. If an Ohio shoot has lots of shooters, it's successful. It's really that simple. Are you looking for shooters to genuflect before you and your director buddies?

How do you let such foolish comments escape your lips?

 

You must have never worked in business. You lay out a bunch of numbers as proof of a good idea. It's not. It rarely is.

Instead of listing campsites, parking and number of traps as proof of a good business decision, why don't you present the surveys showing what your customer base really wanted?

The ATA botched the move. Sparta was a a bad choice. If your physical plant figures corresponded to a facility five miles off I-70, near a decent amount of shopping and dining, you might have deserved an atta boy.

 

N1H1
You have implied that you know the BOD. You have implied they are an egotistical group that may make decisions that are not in the best interest of the ATA. Tarpmaker quoted you correctly.

and

I am convinced you know that BOD well. I am convinced you communicate with them. I am not a legal expert but in my opinion you projected misfeasance. Who is not surprised?

 

The "BOD" makes their 'best guess' at what is "best for the Corporation" ... OK

The membership votes by way of membership and attendance ... OK

The 'rub' now is the "BOD" et al ..... tells many of the membership they are too stupid to know what is best.

Some need to GET OFF THEIR HIGH HORSE and come to grips that some decisions are NOT what is best .... and put more effort into a resolution than a defense.

 

There it is.

I worry, justifiably so, that the best course will not be taken because of pride and embarrassment.

 

Where are you thinking of relocating in Ohio?
It has been explained numerous times on this site that the Cardinal Center has a number of very large very successful shoots and wouldn't want the Grand.

Is there another suitable site?
Could Ohio support 2 large venues?

 

The Silver Dollar has 2 Grands and a State Shoot .... other places could do whatever they desired .... BUT ....

What keeps getting LOST is the fixes that need to go with possible relocation. Who cares where it may be held if 'cheating' and 'other' bad behavior is not addressed. Only a Fool would be interested in a Fool's bet.

 

Sounds like a whole new organization is required.
There was talk of this in Ohio a few years back I am not sure what became of it.
You could also look at the PITA there membership seems quite content.
There has been talk of bringing them east as well.

 

"a whole new organization is required" .... No .... that would be silly, at best ....

How about just removing some 'dead-weight' that is firmly attached to the ATA tit, getting 'fat' from the milk ....

 

Well how do you plan to remove the dead weight? Do you have an actionable plan?

 

Whoa. He's one guy. Don't commit the fallacy of demanding someone presenting an idea to have every item for its implementation in hand. Let's explore a resolution, first. Can the ATA be saved? Should an alternative association of shooters be started?

 

"Do you have an actionable plan?" ..... That is a tough one ....

Let me first say I have never lived in Kentucky, but have a story to tell about being at their State Shoot. It may tell something about how "an actionable plan" may work.

There was an attempt at a change of power ... so each side gathered support for votes ... the big day came ... votes were cast ... and counting the votes was behind closed doors without the challenger, after the count they declared a 'tie' ... what were the odds. Then a demand for a recount ... that was again behind closed doors, again without the challenger being allowed in to see ... still a tie.

So ... the challenger offered to shoot for it, flip a coin, or other options to break the tie. The person that is/was in power declared himself the winner, saying the 'incumbent' wins all ties. I was there and talked to the challenger in person while this was going on. It IS NOT a third-hand account of what someone else said.

There should be no doubt that those who are on the ATA tit, milking it for all they can get, are not very willing to give it up. This person feels the ATA should help pay 'travel-expense' for him to go 'help' at the Silver Dollar, because there must not be anyone closer that is 'able' to 'help'.

 

Well if you took the time to read Users response he said a new organization was "silly at best"
So I am wondering how he plans to change the present organization?
It was a simple question, no need to get excited.
If he doesn't have an answer that is alright we just chatting.

Take a breath and enjoy the day.

 

User looks like were typing at the same time.
With our current setup I believe change will be extremely tough if not impossible.
Having read the rules and bylaws it looks like change will only come from a majority of the BOD.
There is no provision I could see for a open vote by all the membership, although I found your example interesting.

I don't have a solution and I don't believe we will see any major changes with the present organization.

 

"Change" is going to be slow and painful for all involved ... there is common ground for those who love the Sport of Trapshooting.

Those who have put self-gain above the Sport WANT the in-fighting to continue ... it takes the focus off the common goals, and their hand in the pie.

 

Agreed, slow and painful and it would have to happen from within.
I don't think most of us will live long enough to see change.

 

As I stated previously once a delegate is elected many become self-servant they feel they have a better grasp on what is needed regardless of what the membership who elected them want, in order for the ATA to change this has to change. Maybe some method of recall for elected delegates who vote contrary to the wishes of the majority of the members they represent. Some delegates keep their members informed more than once a year while many others are never heard from until the meeting for election the following year.

 

I am not sure a recall is required. There term is short enough you could punt them as required.

When there were major issues like the 2 hole target in 1996 our delegate took a vote at our annual meeting and voted accordingly at the meeting in Ohio.

 

Neil American Trapshooter.as created for ATA shooters who care about the ATA have a voice to be heard, not jumped on, and banned from this site like the other one where you were a moderator and lied numerous occasions where you were called out, and you banned them, and also me from that site. Numerous poster predicted what was going to Happen at Sparta, and it came about, and you were one of the Primary reasons of it happening, How? By bad decisions, back stabbing ATA President Neal Crausaby, proven in Trap & Field, just to get your way on 17 degree angles, the downfall of the ATA,
causing the loss of a Competetive Targets, you are and were the biggest contributor to the ATA downfall.

Your deceiving, un proven graphs, created with slanted incomplete information. You are as worthless as tits on a bore hog when it comes to Improving the ATA Problems, you were the problem, you can read it here on this site.

What was the date of your 100 in doubles at Casa Grande? Are you on the 23.5 yard line? Your Hdcp avgs, 2006=89.59 in 2005 87.21 in 2004-85.04 in 2003-87.96, in 2002-87.61, in 2001-89.58, in 2000-87.50, in 1999-85.64, in 1998-88.05, in 1997-85.72. Just a reflection as to you criticizing Roger Covelski running 25 straight at 30 yard line.

Rumor has it you want to buy Larry Gravestock's Model 31.

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

Roger did that? Ouch. Sorry, off-topic.

 

Where?? that sounds great I'm pretty new to the game and always looking for a shoot

 

N1H1 knowing what we do today would you have done anything different with "your" ata association? Has it worked out the way you thought, better or worse? My opinions have long been known, I'm pretty sure they are going just like I said they would, so I'm not changing them. See long before you came along it was "my" ATA and I feel like it was taken away. In 1980 there were about 100,000 active members, today about 29,000, and this counts all the kids, so as a businessman you and your friends track record stinks. Donald Trump (MY MAN) would have fired you all years ago, but the 70,000 shooters that have left the ATA couldn't so they quit and haven't been replaced, not from Illinois, not from Minn, not from ribbon or category shooters. Just gone.

Personally I think it would be a huge mistake for Jack to let the ATA hold their version of the Grand at the CC and have told him so. They offer nothing for him. As it is today the CC gets all the camping, all the vending, all the shooting, with the added benefit of not haveing all the Dumb Asses that run the ATA around.

I would venture a guess that more than half the shooters that shoot at a CC shoot never shot Vandalia. The Grand that I remember is dead and never to be again in my life time. So is Reno, Las Vegas, the Phoenix club and far to many others. Instead of spending the last 10 years proving how smart the move to Sparta was the EC should have been trying to save the sport, that is the real crime that has been committed.

I'm alive, well, and happy in Ohio and spending my daily fees on better things. Brad Dysinger

 

Thank you!

 

Well that makes it abundantly clear.

 

Well said Brad. It will be interesting to see a response if any, but maybe a graph will be presented showing the money Jack Fishburn would loose if the Grand did not come to the Cardinal Centre.

 

The "Graph Man" knows Ohio was never an option.

No graph will be forth coming.

 

"Built it and they will come" they forgot to tell them where it is obviously ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Shame on you guys! You shouldn't question what n1h1 says. Probably no response until he gets his foot out of his mouth. LOL

Dave Berlet

 

N1H1 has proved to be a self serving, arrogant, pompus as they come person ... He makes the graphs to prove to himself he is right about something or anything for that matter ... The type of person who was never recognized when he was young as being of any value when most of the other kids were involved in sports or games with friends ... The last guy picked until he found his way into the hearts and minds of the EC where he stood in line till it was his turn ... I talked to him on the phone once a long time ago, that was enough ... I used to copy and paste (in a file) everything he said so he could not delete it and deny he said it later ... I quit reading most anything and everything he posts because most lack any real substance or subject matter ... Best thing about him is his Dog "Kyra" ... (JMHO) ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

From N1H1

These are the people responsible for our sport's destiny? So sad.

 

No matter what happens to the WSRC, the Cardinal Center would not be better served by bailing out the ATA by hosting the Grand American ... Thats if it comes down to that, based on the fact that thay have a great following and have established themself to be a Premiere shooting organization and facility ... The ATA could and would probably double its attendence with the exception of all of the Illinois shooters from the Sparta (3 or 4) area who probably would not show up to support it ... Cardinal Center is doing quite well, why ruin a good thing ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT,

Is Sparta a club? Do people shoot there throughout the week? I know Cardinal is regularly open for shooting and has a good number of shooters always on hand.

 

Sparta is a Recreational Park, not sure if they shoot there all week or not ... I do know a few people who camp there all summer when they are not Snow Birding someplace warm ... That probably depends on if the locals come out and keep the place going ... Cardinal Center is pretty much in a class of its own from what I have been told ... They have to shoot on week days because they can't all shoot on the week ends its so busy ... (lol) I do not think you have to call and make reservations at the WSRC ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Thank you Brad ,If memory serves I think you and Mac were the opposing votes , he is retired and you quit. Where from here

 

1. The ATA can change their year to start 1 Jan. That would open the fall to places like Tx and Az.

One thing I have noticed is the tendency to think that only folks in Pa and Ohio are the only ones who shoot trap and are the decision makers. Really don't like this at all.

 

That's why there should be only one vote per state!

 

And we have one delegate per State or Province, which makes up the Board.

 

And would this be a good idea if the Grand were held in a Province, instead of a State? We hear a lot of OH and PA shooter boycott Sparta because it is too far for them to drive there, being it is now almost 350 miles from Vandalia.


A revolving Grand to States and Provinces big enough to hold it would allow shooters to attend a Grand who would not attend it being at a fixed location, because it is too far to drive to.

Biggest problem is sites big enough and climates bearable in August.

 

Why not have a summer and a winter Grand ,have one in August at the Cardinal Center and one in early spring in Tucson ??????? Good weather for both everybody shoots in the same weather,If you win at CC the ring would say Eastern Grand American Champion ,the other Western Grand American Champion ???? Both places are big enough now to handle it ,nobody have to spend any money building more traps ECT……….. But the Ata would have to buy ten rings BIG DEAL there would be a lot of people that would go to both shoots they would sell twice as many targets and make more money !!!!!!! And we could tell Illinois to eat sh*t and die !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Illinois is not the one who made a mistake unless you consider spending 31.4 million tax dollars to build a facility that did not have sufficient infrastructor in the immidate area a mistake ... The ATA painted a picture of 100,000 visitors or shooters and the State anticipated big money for the facility and the State, never happened before,since, nor will it ever in the future ... The ATA jumped at the first thing moving out of desparation and the possibility of not having a Grand American for a year or possibly two ... Ohio does not need the ATA anyomore now than they did at the time it all took place ... The Cardinal Center is doing quite nicely with the shoots scheduled they have already, so why screw up a good thing ..? The ATA would have to submit a proposal to any and all clubs that might consider hosting the Grand or that have enough traps to do so and see what happens ... They might get a rude awakening, so they better hope that the WSRC does not go anyplace soon or they could very well be SOL ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Just change the ATA year to start on 1 Jan. This opens up AZ and Texas for Oct/Nov dates to make people happy.

 

You keep losing on this ridiculous notion, yet keep coming back for more.

 

"Losing" from just a few other opinions?


If you don't like my opinion thats just fine, put me on your ignore list.

 

WPT

How can you say ATA jumped at the first thing offered when there were only 3 offers, one was too far (Texas) from the majority of shooters and another inadequate (IN requiring parallel trap lines) and that left only IL.

Nobody else came forward with offers, including Ohio. And if the Ohio does not need ATA, why do Ohio shooters continue to concern themselves and complain about ATA? I don't get it, I really don't.

 

And if the attitude is Ohio does not need ATA, then maybe there is good reason someone named this thread "As anticipated, anywhere but Ohio."

 

There were 3 proposed sites in OH.

Also, they were shooting registered targets at the CC before Sparta. Not that it matters. Our org is corrupt. That is why we are having the discussion.

Many Ohioans distrust the ATA because they felt the backhand of corruption. Not all but many.

 

Three offers from Ohio? Formal offers? Really? This is the first time I have heard this. Reading the ATA minutes, only IL, IN and TX made offers and some people said there was supposed to be an offer from IA, but it was never formally made. Can anyone point me to the minutes where formal offers from Ohio were made? I would like to read them. Did CC make an offer? If not , then what is the importance of "shooting at CC before Sparta? " Fail to see importance of that statement.

 

The 3 offers were kept from even making it to the table. You asked why do Ohioans complain about the ATA. It is not just that they are complaining about the ATA but more that they are proud they do not need to rely on the cronies at the top for their own survival.

When I use the word Ohioans I mean the area surrounding Ohio. PA, NY, WV, MD, IN, and MI. The heartland of trapshooting. Many of the posters you assume are Ohioans are from those states.

 

How in God's name were the offers kept off the table?

Were any offers from any other States kept off the table?

Are there written copies of these proposals somewhere?

If somebody wanted to sue somebody for offers kept off the table, what evidence can we present to make our case?

 

I only heard of the three offers that were in the minutes.

What were the other 3 offers from Ohio?

 

Leonidas

Will you be calling to get that information? Strange you asking?

 

Who do you call appy, the first I've heard of the other offers were by family guy. He is in the know, maybe he will share the info.

 

Are you saying the ATA was unwanted by every major shooting facility in existence?

 

Read what I wrote, not what you want it to say!

The first I've heard of three places from OHIO that didn't make it to the table as per Family Guy's post #85.

 

Texas is too far? too far from where?

 

Lady T,

In the minutes from the BOD meeting of possible sites, the Teaxs site was faulted as void of trees, just barren flat land and objection to it's location as being to far removed from the large concentration of ATA members located in the Midwest, Oh, Pa, Ky, etc.,etc., etc.,

 

San Antonio would be a great place! Love Texas summers!

 

If the 5 or 6 on here who continually give their know it all opinions and shout down anyone who opposes them and gang ridicule them, are the the ones with all the answers then this sport is in deep dodo. All you do is bitch, whine and complain. You don't like the ATA then do something about it. Change the current organization, you have all the answers. Start a new organization, you have all the answers and you can make your own rules. Lastly you could bring in PITA, shouldn't be a problem moving all your loyal following to their organization, but how long before you start ripping them apart.

Put PITA or another organization in and watch the numbers at CC drop like a rock. There are still hundreds of happy Ohio ATA shooters what are you going to do with them? God you can't have happy shooters that doesn't fit with your plans.

Why don't you do something positive with this site, you are becoming the joke of the shooting world.

JMHO

Lefty

 

Ah...there it is right on time. The I hate the CC but I really don't statement. It does get old lefty.

You agonize about the CC. You hate the site. You don't like me or other mods and posters. And yet here you are again. Thanks for showing up again. And again. And again. A little hate goes a long way. lol

Have you thought about a 12 step group? The group would be called "americantrapshooter anonymous." Or maybe another called "I despise the CC anonymous." Or " I hate Ohio anything anon."

My name is "leftout" and I just cant quit americantrapshooter.com.

Hi Leftout.

Remember: Only the first step is about stopping. The remaining eleven steps are about how to create a new life where it's easier to not use.

Peace

 

FG I don't think you can handle the truth. Same falsehoods for every comment I make. Where is the hatred in what I said? If you don't agree tell me where I erred, why is my opinion wrong? Oh that's right you can't have a different opinion on this site. Either drink your "Kool-Aid" or leave, right ?

I thought you started this site for all shooters so they could state their opinions different or not without fear of ridicule or being banned if they do. That's the cruel hoax you have played on the shooting public.

By the way I will continue to shoot and financially support the CC contrary to what you do.

Lefty

 

And here you are, 85 posts later, with a contrary view and yet you are not banned. And you stated your opinion. And for the 85th time you are not banned. Did you mention that at the AT.C anon meeting?

When someone says I do not support the CC then how can you expect anyone to take you seriously?

Drop back. You know you cant quit. Try for 86.

 

Rio de Janeiro

The other people have been in charge for a long time, and the sport is in really deep excrement. Merely deep would be an improvement.

NO. All they do is help, assist, improve, lead. Why won't people like you get out of the way? Why won't people like you do what's good for Trap? Why won't people like you move over and let people with a plan and a vision lead? Why won't people like you admit that you've done enough harm?

Here's the joke:

What makes an angry group of trapshooters even angrier?

Americantrapshooter.com