The MAIN reasons ATA participation has fallen (Can You Handle the Truth?)

Thoughtful shooters realize that many factors contributed to reduced ATA membership which had little or nothing to do with the ATA or the EC's stupid decisions. I'll list the MAIN ones for you below. *** DON'T PANIC -- I'm not telling anyone how to feel -- you're allowed to be intelligent enough to understand these truths and still hate the ATA. You can even keep poking needles into your Neil Winston voodoo dolls. It's OK. ***

1) EROSION OF AVG. WORKING MAN'S INCOME: Trap shooting is costly and good paying factory jobs with decent benefits are now the exception. A few decades ago, it was common for a man with average intelligence and skills to go straight from high school into a typical factory job and, just a few years later, be comfortably supporting a wife & kids, own a decent home and a nice car and still have money left over for savings and trap shooting. Many common union jobs were more lucrative still. For example, a good friend of mine had 10 siblings yet his dad comfortably supported the 12-person family with a union factory job, despite being a big drinker. But nowadays many men have bachelors degrees, plus the wife works full time, and they still can't live as we'll as the guy who spun lug nuts on at the Ford plant in 1965 while his wife stayed home with the kids.

2) THE RISE OF COMPETING SHOOTING SPORTS: The biggest hit came from Sporting Clays, which features a more social format than trap and is generally more welcoming of new shooters. It is also better practice for hunters than is trapshooting. There are also many forms of pistol and rifle shooting which did not exist a few decades ago and these all compete for the diminishing disposable dollar of the average American. Just a few years ago you could go .22 plinking literally all day for less than the cost of shooting a single 100-bird trap event. It's still relatively inexpensive.

3) CULTURAL SHIFT AND DEMONIZATION OF GUNS: When I was a kid, we hardly knew any families who DIDN'T own a gun and most people who lived outside big cities hunted at least occasionally. Growing up there was a .22 rifle leaning in the corner next to our back door, a revolver in the kitchen cupboard and a 12 ga. shotgun above my parent's bedroom closet every single day of my childhood. If we had company over, they walked right past the .22 rifle to hang up their coats in the hall closet (which incidentally held a 30-06 deer rifle and a 12 ga goose gun). The revolver and shotgun were ALWAYS loaded and nobody ever gave it a second thought. In fact during my entire childhood I don't remember a single adult guest ever mentioning the immediate accessibility of the family guns. Conversely, nowadays when you host a birthday party for your kid it isn't uncommon for the other kids' parents call before RSVPing and ask for assurance that your home contains no firearms. They literally will not allow their kids on the property of a gun owner. The implication, of course, is that guns are bad and gun owners are necessarily irresponsible. Gun owners are to be systematically ostracized from decent society. Many public school teachers initiate this brainwashing by indoctrinating children to help stigmatize gun ownership. Guns = evil.

4) EXPLOSION OF COMPETING ENTERTAINMENT AND SPORTS OPTIONS: Kids these days are bombarded with things to do. Many barely go outside to play, much less go shooting or hunting or anything else which might naturally lead to an interest in trapshooting. Technology plays such a gigantic role in young people's lives that few of us over 50 even grasp how much time they spend on it. "Human interaction" is greatly brought to them by electrons via 5G. Before iPhones and iPads distracted our kids, TV took it's toll on outdoor activities like trap. Adults have more options too and most of them play with their phones more than a 15 year-old boy plays with his ding dong. They have a virtual "life" and things like trapshooting are far removed from their little touch-screen world.

Ignoring that factors such as these played a huge, primary role in the reduced participation in ATA trapshooting is simply denial of reality.

-Gary

 

Gary, I generally believe all of what you're telling us except #1. There's plenty of disposable out there for educated people with good jobs. Sporting Clays courses in our area are full of young professionals who always seem to have an extra $40/100 while driving BMW's and renting golf carts. The local casino had it's best Dec. on record. Try and get a table at an upscale restaurant weekends in our area where an hour wait is not unusual. Even my local bar/restaurant is jammed during the week on Specials nights!

 

Gary I feel that those reasons are correct, even #1. At least in my state. Now that gas prices are down the middle class will have more disposable to play with. But we know those prices won't stay down come spring. I think the biggest is #3. This keeps a lot of the new youth shooters away because of parents not wanting let their kids to be around guns. Even in the rural areas youth hunting is down.

 

Where I had moved to in South Carolina, our club would see an influx of Trapshooting kids, but when they tried 5 stand and sporting clays, that's the last we saw of them on the trap or skeet fields.

Our old club in NY converted to all Sporting Clays and 5 stand from a slowly dying trap and skeet club. Today they are a major club on the SC and 5 stand circuit.

As stated, Sporting Clays is much more social, and I believe this to be a main factor with most today.

Dave Monahan

 

Ollie, I hear you -- a goodly percentage of educated people do still have a decent amount of disposable income. But I specifically said the "working man" in #1, which is the mass that carried trapshooting in it's heyday. Such folks still comprise much of ATA participation even today, although many of them are retired or close to it.

The problem with attracting the educated people in higher numbers are #2, #3, and #4.

-Gary

PS: Easy with that casino stuff. I own some gaming stocks and the industry isn't exactly booming.

 

#1 ????? Last Summer there was a help wanted ad in the local paper. Don`t remember who was hiring but the add stated that you had to have a minimum of a Bachelor`s Degree to apply. Starting pay was $9.00 and hour !!! What an insult.

 

OK Tom, so you work for 8 hours and make $72 and after taxes you might be able to buy a flat of Estates... if you find them on sale. So what's the problem -- just live in a tent, don't eat, and you can go shoot some ATA!

Damn that Neil Winston!

-Gary

 

You can't argue with any of that. Well just one little thing.

Gary, after you moved this post and added the extra paragraph at the top I added the "one little thing"
I don't HATE the ATA. They can do whatever they want. I think they were stupid for making the changes they did but I don't hate them.

#1 did it to me. I wasn't married when I started. The mills were open and I spent every extra cent on buying components, shells,(Fed papers) travel( 5 different state shoots) and just pulling the trigger every chance I got. EVERY CHANCE I GOT! Nothing was more important than shooting. After I got married my wife supported my habit. She used to enjoy going to the shoots. Her question usually was, "Where are you guys shooting next weekend?" 8,000-10,000 combined registered targets per year and shooting leagues 3 nights a week was no big deal.

Then the mills closed.


Flyersarebest, But I'm still a Trap shooter.

 

Sure Flyers, I wasn't implying that everyone who gripes about the EC hates the ATA. I mean how could anyone not think the EC did some stupid things? But by far the worst sin of all is that they never seem to learn. The best example is how the EC let a blatant 18-yard cheater steal the top title and STILL didn't eliminate 18 yard caps which makes such cheating infinitely more possible. Completely outrageous, and demoralizing to honest contenders at the Grand and fair-minded trapshooters everywhere.

Nonetheless, this special brand of stupidity and EC hard-headedness merely accelerated the demise of ATA shooting a bit -- it wasn't a primary cause. People can make dumb decisions and not be to blame for everything, right?

-Gary

 

Dave, There is some truth to what you say, but I see it more in the urban area than rural. I remember when I first starting to shoot trap. It was due to the fact that I had moved from rural Wisconsin to Chicago area for gainful employment. With the lack of a place to hunt I started to shoot trap. If there was sporting clays going on at that time in the area I most likely would have started that as it is closer to hunting.

 

There are always many 'factors' .... but the one that most dismiss is ......

If you start throwing big bloody steaks, not just the bone, out in your yard ..... soon you will have large packs of dogs traveling great distances to fight for the feast.

 

Gasp!

I will now be offering Ken Cerney anti-truth voodoo dolls. Interested parties can email me at WinstonSux@2hole.com

-Gary

 

Again, I can't argue with that either.

The business plan that the ATA adopted to keep the revenue stream flowing was a little flawed. To say the least. I think it backfired on them and they either don't know how to correct it or, just don't want to. The 20 yard line min. would have been a good start. Kinda like, we hear you and are making a change. I won't hold my breath.

I think it turned into a catch-22 for them. Local shoots got smaller or just stopped. For any/ all four of your reasons. People didn't want to go where they had 3 squads of 16's , 2 squads of caps and not enough shooters for doubles. You couldn't win anything. Might as well shoot practice and save the money and shells for a state shoot. Then when you did go to your state shoot you competed against guys that worked the system. ( I know, they didn't invent the system, they just worked it) but it sure made it tough to win anything. The guys I shot with for years all quit. Some for health reasons, some for one of the reasons you listed, some just got disgusted with the whole system.

I posted in another thread that I might even re-up again and try a few hundred at a local shoot just to seee if I can still break a hundred. Can't imagine I would ever go back on the trail and shoot the numbers of registered targets I used to. Darn shame! Like I said, I used to live for the registered weekends.

Flyersarebest, But I'm still a Trap shooter.

 

The ATA is what it is due to bonehead decisions by the EC, BOD, and past presidents. If they really had the courage to do the right thing then everyone of them would resign.

How long would any of them lasted at a board meeting of major shareholders? The clubs are doing well in my area. Not because of the ata but despite the idiots at the top.

 

We had 20 squads NE Ohio. Just club league. I don't think any of them knew what an All American point was. Maybe they didn't get the message.

 

Gary,

Are you sure the EC did not send that post to you? According to the FBI statistics the last decade has seen a massive surge in gun sales in the U.S.
We don't have a shortage of shooters at my club. Most of our members can no longer spell A-T-A.

 

Obviously lots of people like us continue to own guns. People in the south largely haven't bought into the demonization of guns BS and continue to buy them. Lots of SHTF preppers buy guns. Obama sold more guns than any human in history and every mass shooting sells guns because people see the government trying to politicize these tragedies to forward gun control. None of this contradicts the reality that there is a massive push to brainwash the sheep by demonizing guns and indoctrinating kids.

Enjoy your guns; you may be the last generation to die while it's still legal to own them.

-Gary

 

Handgun sales continue at a rapid pace. We can't keep some popular models in stock. Long guns sales are very slow but do trickle out. Krieghoff can barely keep up with the demand for their guns with Sporting Clays dominating the market. There seems to be plenty of disposable income available for those $12,000 shotguns!!

 

Can any body order the WinstonSux@2hole.com VooDoo Dolls, I want to stick the Hell out of it w/pins, how many pins are the most effective?

 

Death and cost.

Don't know about you but I don't have enough fingers to count the number of shooters I have enjoyed over the years that are not around anymore. They were dedicated shooters.
Not enough people to replace them.

Cost is another big factor. If gas stays down it will help but a lot of clubs that have closed will make it more difficult due to distance.



Regards....Gerald

 

Post of the year.

 

Pins no longer included. For some reason everybody who ordered the DLS voodoo doll requested extra pins, so I'm out of stock.

-Gary

 

GW22, Good post.

Another thing I would add is the big money shooters blamed the ATA but in fact the big money was option money and the ATA had nothing to do with options.

The schools of little fish got tired of being eaten with no or little chance to win so they quit playing the money. Now all the big money shooters have left is to discredit the ATA, EC and its Delegates.

 

Can we get the one with the pink skirt and ship to Florida?

 

How large would a Big Don voodoo doll be?

 

Gary, Send the invoice with the doll I will send payment or do you take pay pal?

 

I could give a suggestion on what to construct it from but you wouldn't be able to stick the pins in it.

Flyersarebest

 

Anyway we could get a green voodoo doll made? Just wondering.

 

I love trapshooting also when I started in 1967 shooting small shoots for components, my buddy and I graduated to calcuttas, we shot every day of the week except Mondays, we would have shot then if we found a shoot. We did this for a very long time, Since I had earned yardage shooting ATA he joined and the very first shoot they used known ability on him and gave him 2 yards, he quit, never another registered target. So all he shot was Calcuttas with his Solid Rib Model 12 with the taped on rib where it came unsoldered, he still has it. He now shoots sporting clays and skeet at Sunbury, Ohio. In the warm weather he is Bass Tournament Fishing, he's won a couple of Complete Bass Boats w/Trailers. I still shoot trap as much as I can afford. Buddies, Annies, and Long Birds. I have some secret Longshot Loads. I still shoot ATA Handicaps once in a while. I really never liked shooting 16yds, for me it is a miss and out, being AA. I am moving to get closer to my shooting clubs.

GW22 you said it the way I needed to say it. I am not skilled enough to do that. I do Congratulate you in putting it on paper like it should have been put, Congratulations Again. Thanks
Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

Which of Gary's Voodoo dolls would be the best seller?

I hope you at least come up with a limited edition green doll. A really short one that can't shoot.

 

I finally got Winstonsux@2whole.com VooDoo doll hey thanks for shipping to me, now I have something to do to relieve my frustrations more pins please

 

Wow, this is amazing. Let me try to soak it all in...

1) We've got a guy who apparently hates the Cardinal Center, which I love, complimenting me on this thread.

2) We've got Dr. Longshot thanking me profusely for refuting his perpetual rant that target angles/speed, Neil Winston and the EC are entirely responsible for the demise of ATA shooting.

3) I made a couple jokes about voodoo dolls and now I've got the moderator warning me that I can only sell them in the For Sale section. LOL.

Whew, crazy.

But funny!

-Gary

 

If you're referring to me I never said anything about hating any gun club. In fact the more the merrier.

But one question is why the hate for Bigdon and Neil Winston?

 

I didn't read into hate. I like Big Don....someone even considered putting his name on a shirt. Someone above has a cutie doll that he thinks is in the likeness of someone.

Where is Big Don.? It seems we like both of them more than they like us.

 

Leo....if you go back to wherever. Would you please ask where Big Don is. Check on Neil also. The more the merrier.

 

Big Don is really an O K guy that just gets his shorts in a wad occasionally. He is probably very busy this winter loading up bunches of those 1250_ 1300 fps shells from the good doc's loading manual so he can whup up on us poor Buckeyes this summer. L O L.

Actually I consider Big Don a good friend.

Dave Berlet

 

Well put, Dave. Big Don is an interesting character and excellent shooter. Hopefully he and other TS.com regulars will occasionally choose to leave corporate captivity and join us here in the wild.

-Gary

 

If you guys ever meet the big guy you will see why all here would enjoy his presence.

 

It's fun to kid around. IMHO, Don and my rival Neil, would be great assets to the forum.

I enjoy conversing with both of them.

Dr.longshot

 

Looks like someone is getting him ready for another 2 yards off, and another rule change

 

How about my Rivals right hand man Barfin and his brown noser right up in there Grntitan

 

More named personal attacks?

 

Leonidas, I like big Don. Brad

 

I happen to like BigDon also! Met him at the Grand and we talked a lot! Very interesting fellow and I consider him my friend! I told a nephew I'd met Don and we got along just fine. He said that doesn't comes as a surprise, you're both a couple of azzholes!!

HAP

 

BigDon is almost tolerable once you get to know him.

 

BigDon is one of the good guys and a lot of fun to shoot with.

 

Grntitan went far out of his way to help me on several occasions even back when he didn't know me from Adam. Expected nothing in return. I'll take friends like that any day.

-Gary

 

I think I will go out and shoot another hundred this afternoon. You all keep up the good work. I will be back later.
W

 

Barkingspider

I think you have the right idea. I was out Saturday and had fun.

Have to work this afternoon or I'd be gone again.

 

Are Barfin and Grntitan real names?

 

I am sure I will see Big Don at the Buckeye this week. Big Don is very likeable fellow. Just drinks a little too much of the cool ade.

 

You left one off...
AGEING SHOOTERS
i look around and my generation is absent from sport in my area, we where pushed away by those not wishing to compete against youth and our etiquette was not to there standard.
Rather than taking the time to teach they subjected us to ridicule and put us down.
the reason i stayed was because of a good friend and teacher that pushed me hard to not only compete but to learn history of sport.

 

Wow, by the time I got to the end of this thread I forgot what I originally wanted to post. Anyway, I agree with the cultural side affecting the sport. How can my 8 year old go into school and tell them about his summer vacation of traveling the country to shoot a shotgun? Taboo to mention the word gun in schools so he usually just tells about some little thing we did on the side. How can he possibly speak of his activities which may influence his friends to try in such a effed up society?

 

Here is a perfect example of what you posted.

My youngest grandson was about eight or nine and had a school project titled "Grand Parents". It was just a little pamphlet that had some questions and then he had to write a short paragraph. The questions gave a little background on my favorite things. For example, colors, food, job, simple question that we could talk about together.

We were having fun filling it out, I helped him with some of the spelling, and we were laughing and a good time. He was writing down whatever I told him. THEN, we came to the question about what I liked to do with my spare time. I told him he knew what the answer was, shooting guns.

He stopped writing, wouldn't look at me when I asked him what was wrong. I thought, WTH? What just happened? I pressed him a little about why he wouldn't write that answer.

"What's the matter Bud? You know we both like to go to the club and shoot."

His lip was quivering and he started to tear up a little. Can you imagine what I felt thinking I just made my grandson cry? I told him that everything was fine, no need to get upset, just tell me why.

"I can't write that Pap, it has to do with guns."

I told him to write fishing.

There's a whole other story about how, when I told his mother, she contacted his teacher the next day and explained to her the facts of life.

Flyersarebest

 

Would need extra material for the legs. Like a grouchy Big Bird with a shotgun.

 

How detailed does the voodoo doll have to be? The pink skirt on the Winston doll was a nice touch.
Planning this Big Don voodoo doll. Will need this done by Saturday for the Buckeye.

 

Isn't the purpose of handicap just that? It is meant to give new shooters (such as myself) a chance to be competitive.
I don't know many people who can start out on the 27 and have a chance. I think it is great that a short yardage shooter won the grand, it gives other short yardage shooters hope that they may actually have a chance to win. I have met and shot with the GAH winner and personally think he is a good guy. Unlike a lot of people, before I judge someone, I like to meet them and form my own opinion, instead listening to what others write. Congrats Adam! Good luck this year!

 

Interesting conclusion.

There could be a pattern developing here.

 

If another 18 yrd CAPS shooter ever wins again I doubt it will be under the same circumstances. Since the PA delegate got involved and the ATA spanked the hands of the 2 clubs where the "GAH WINNER" CLAIMED he shot a lot of those registered caps targets(lousy scores BTW) it SHOULD be pretty tough for anyone to duplicate they way the "GAH WINNER" did it.

Flyersarebest

 

What was the penalty for the clubs?

What was the penalty for the shooter?

 

"Isn't the purpose of handicap just that? It is meant to give new shooters (such as myself) a chance to be competitive."

Yes it is. It has always been that way. Look back over all the years the Grand has been shot and see how many "shorter" yardage shooters have won the GAH. Good for them.

The problem a LOT of people had with last years winner is that, after doing a lot of research into where and when he supposedly shot enough lousy scores to put/keep himself on that 18 yard line, they think he "worked the system". He, and the 2 clubs they slapped on the wrist. You will have to research that one yourself, I'm too tired.

After a few more years of shooting I think you just might look back on what happened at the grand in 2014 and think, WTH?

Reduction of the number of registered shoots they are permitted to have. ( Less opportunities for the clubs to make money)

NONE! (Shoulda, woulda, coulda)

Flyersarebest

 

That was a year ago, move on.
All the shooters at the 2 clubs lost the targets shot there. The club was not permitted to throw registered targets for quite a while, they now have to send copies of score sheets every week.
Both clubs are now doing everything by the book, I shoot at both of them.

 

If you knew the answer to your question, why did you act like you didn't?

WAS not permitted? or ARE not permitted?

Flyersarebest

 

Was.
Has anyone else on this site ever won the grand? I wish I had enough time to sit around and dwell on this, but I do not.
Happy shooting.

 

Cpalmer,
By your text it appears that you believe that no wrongs were committed, the only thing that could be proven is that the clubs did not retain the score sheets in question. that is why the clubs were penalized. As to the shooter there was not any PROOF of wrong doing so he was not penalized, others have drawn their own conclusions based on the events that transpired during the GAH and the shootoff that followed. People only believe the old proverb " if it walks like a duck then it must be a duck".

 

I honestly don't care what happened then, I wasn't even shooting yet. I just enjoy shooting and also enjoy the people I've met.
"Judge not, less Ye be judged"

 

Nobody is judging anyone just following the facts,
1. someone reported that something was not right to the ATA
2. the ATA asked the clubs for their shoot records
3. the clubs could not produce the shoot records
4. the shooters in question had paid the clubs daily fees which was forwarded to the ATA
5. since no records of the shoots could be produced the ATA returned the daily fees to the shooters involved.
6. something happened which is evidenced by the collection and return of the ATA daily fees
No disrespect intended just following the facts.

 

to the OP ... especially #1 ... frankly I'm befuddled that so many are in denial and took exception to #1

 

And the targets were removed from the shooter's official records!

 

Creaker, your post shows where you were and were not at certain times in trapshooting history.

How well do you think the grand and the PA and OH Shoots did the year all the steel mills closed in both states. You think the economy is weak now?

Nixon's inflation proceeded that.

And how about the 2 years of long lines during the fuel shortage?

Enough about the golden years of trapshooting.....

When you are done with those statistics tells us about our membership during the deep recession of the early 80's.

There was the year of stock market collapse. Remember black Thursday? How was membership then? Did you see many at the grand?

Did we mention the dot.com crash. Sent bunches into bankruptcy. How did that economy hurt membership?

Those were the booming years and those were bad economies!

The only thing that hurt us more than the target change of the 90's was the 2003 announcement that the grand was moving.

 

What i dislike about whole thing about blaming economic conditions is that i hear MOST OF OUR SHOOTERS ARE ON FIXED INCOMES.... why BE BECAUSE THERES NO YOUTH SHOOTERS AROUND TO CARRY THE TORCH.
in the 80's when I was growing up i went shooting with my friends, now I'm the only one still shooting.... 1/13
Average age of shooter in wed. league 67...
Number of shooters under age of 18... 12....
Pattern is consistent in Thursday night league and Saturday and sunday shoot....
as shooters we need to reach out and support youth and help with AIM and school teams... THEY ARE THE FUTURE

 

Fredonia....I agree.

Every time a youth a youth shooter goes to a major shoot and sees that the sport is about being perfect we reinforce their perception that other shooting games are more challenging.

Excluding skeet, the numbers for youth in the other shooting games are up. Trap is struggling to hold its own since what I call the dark age of trapshooting.

 

One thing that I think goes here too, is the lack of the family unit. Many families are now single parent family with the father limited or removed from the picture completely. As a hunter ed instructor, I see alot of mothers bringing their kids in because it's a "gun safety" class. It is usually grandpa or uncle that takes them hunting and these are the same people who take them shooting.

Since it takes time to arrange that to happen and the spare time can easily be filled in with electronics or ????? shooting and such is falling by the wayside.

IMHO

 

It's true, there's so many things for people to spend their recreational excess money on today it's almost mind boggling! So many today, that it helps explain why our sport isn't growing as it once was without placing blame on our org.

Thinking back to the era when our growth rate was great, then fast forwarding toward the declining years, that began long before all the attractants spoken of today. The decline of our sports growth actually began when? Why did our sports numbers begin the decline at that time? Till we address those reasons and remedy the ills that caused the decline in the first place, we're merely treading water in a swim or sink mode.

Even when our growth rate was at it's highest, our sport was an expensive venture! Reading and understanding our sports history and the drastic changes made to it may turn on the lights again, hopefully.

HAP

 

Last night i shot with a true family... 4brothers with different last names, different parents, and different addresses... but they are a band of brothers.
Ones mother abandoned his family...
ones family focuses its attention on his older brother....
one needing guidance....
and the other along with his dad the bond that helps them along.
i grow up shooting with my MUCH older brother and remember the days well, i to feel that the family unit is falling apart but think that a new family can be formed through mentors and friendship. I think that school shooting programs and youth league is i good START but us adults must keep it going year round, not just during season.

 

One thing for sure the top 100 Handicap averages weren't all 27 yarders!

 

Years ago we used to recruit trap help from the schools this is where we picked up a lot of new young shooters, these kids grew to like the sport and were anxious to participate. Now even talking about guns at school is bad business and the education system bad mouthing anything to do with shooting we have lost these potential new shooters. Today most parents have been through this school system and do not want anything to do with guns. They have been indoctronated by the system.

 

Longshot's doll poking at Neil is classic. Good of Neil to roll with the punch.

 

I will add one more reason. The WWII shooters have all died. When I started shooting in the 1970's most of the shooters were WWII guys alot of them. And they all like to bet shooting there model 12's, 37's, and 31's. Their gone and so are there guns. A big chunk of the ATA went with them, as there was a noticeable decline in ATA shoots starting in the mid 80's, as those guys quit or died off.

 

Laughing at the above post. That explains the 4,500-5,000 shooters that were at Vandalia in the 90's.

 

So Do I, Big Don Checked on me when I Had my Foot Amputated, and he Bought a Silver Seitz.

Gary Bryant..........................Dr.longshot

 

One of my favorite threads to the top.

Four years later? Incomes are higher. Too many jobs. And still no one in Sparta.

❤️ docs voodoo dolls!!!

 

Many years later....how accurate was this thread?

 

A lot of these posters are not active anymore, I miss some of them.

 

I never did get my voodoo doll

 

My favorite thread from the archives. How many of docs voodoo dolls were sold?

 

Darn it FG! You just made me read that entire thread...again

 

Has anything changed? New ideas? Money?

 

Rob

One thing that's changed (at the CC) Rob is those skeet fields that I warned about when I was TD. Another thing is look at the posters and how many of them have left the ATA for various reasons.

Even with all the kids that have went through SCTP since the start of this thread not (any) much positive affect on the ATA shooters' numbers has materialized. This thread is going on 7 years old and so I'd guess you know what has changed, nothing good.

 

BUT, we still have that "better" class of people across the road

 

we just spent 300.00 at walmart getting weekly basic food supplies. #1 is spot on. it use to be 100.00.

 

are the RV campers using diesel in those big rigs? if so, at 5.25 a gallon, I can see the desire to keep it parked and to take up basket weaving next to a fire. I still say #1 (costs) is the main issue for the common man.

 

I just spent $725 at Costco stocking up on some meat and normal stuff. Future son-in-law was here today having a drink, he has shot a few rounds and loves it. Tried to tell him it is still a great sport but at $10 a box and $40 for targets a 300 target day is not in a young couples budget planing.

 

I was talking to a trapshooting friend yesterday about the cost of shooting competition. He said he took his son to the Northeastern Grand he said it cost him $2200. Gas and hotel not included.

 

That wouldn’t be so bad if a 50 paid $5,000 or a 49 paid $2,000. Since the handicap system doesn’t work that is lots of money.

But, the delegates are way to busy to fix the handicap system. Ask your delegate what his plan is. I can guarantee you his plan doesn’t go any further than finding his parking spot at Sparta. And in hindsight, what was Shaw’s plan. What did he do to correct the handicap system?

Answer: He got a free K80 combo or did he take a Pgun?

 

Was this thread really started in 2015?

 

It's the gift that keeps on giving.