Discussion in 'Trapshooting Forum' started by oldskt94, Feb 10, 2018.
New York times is reporting that Remington will be filling for bankruptcy. Anyone heard about this.
yes they are looking for funding to file
What Greg said.
They haven't filed yet, but depending on what chapter they file, will dictate what will happen. Sounds like since they are looking for funding, they are opting to reorganize, and they have to have a plan approved by the court.
Yes, In fact I gave Merlo a heads up about this at the beginning of the week and he wouldn't print it because he didn't have another source, so he was scooped. Also I have info that they are 1 Billion in debt, another thing I told Merlo is that accusport is 150 million in debt and are looking at bankruptcy too. Merlo is still checking on that info. I think he has spent too much time under the overpass lately. Brad
Hate to hear that. I've got at least a half dozen Remington guns maybe more. Of course I haven't purchased a new one in probably 20 years. Won a new 870 Wingmaster a few years ago, but ended up selling it. The thing about a gun is you really can't wear em out to where they gotta be replaced every few years or so. Remington quit selling targets - maybe 15 years ago???
Why can Beretta sell guns and Remington can't? No innovation, no imagination and outdated manufacturing methods puts them at a price, quality and desirability disadvantage which they have not been able to overcome.
A billion dollars in debt? How or why did Remington need a billion dollars since Cerberus took them over? Figure that out, and you will know what is going on.
tomk, Remington has been bought several times by corporate raiders. They buy for pennies on the dollar, sell of assets, finance to the hilt, and then file for bankruptsy. The company has been stripped by the last 4 or more owners. The company will probably be sold off piece meal this time. Sad ending for a once proud American company. Roger C.
New York State gets first claim on the Ilion facilities.
Will the sponsored shooters still get their 'free' shells?
Must be the ATAs fault for letting the Big Dogs getting free stuff!
At the time, I thought all the Gun Clubs on the market for less than $50/flat might be an attempt to quickly generate cash. Clearly they are disparate for cash if they have to be looking for outside financing to file for bankruptcy.
Nah, I am pretty sure it is Neil Winston's fault.
They are not desperate for cash. Getting the suckers... er I mean creditors, to loan them a 950 million dollars and then file bankruptcy was the plan all along. Cerberus buys Remington for 100 million dollars with 250 million in debt, then adds 700 million dollars in debt. That 700 million was used to pay back the investors, quite a profit! Plus all the fees you can generate for managing the company, being on the board, positions for your friends and relatives. Private equity is quite the lifestyle! If they had more cash they would just use the cash flow to justify borrowing another hundred million to line their own pockets.
Like Roger said, once the corporate raiders have hold of a company the outcome is never what is good for the company.
I see Fox is reporting on Remington today, George Soros was the big owner and also owned DPMS and Bushmaster. The black gun makers are really in a world of hurt and will be dropping like flies.
Fox reported that the company had been dogged by falling sales since one of its guns was used at Sandy Hook in 2012. What planet did this reporter live on. For starters it was a Bushmaster and not a Remington and Black Guns sales and ammo went threw the roof in the Obama years.
So tomK hit the nail on the head. Brad
Of course the are desperate for cash. Bankruptcy means they have no cash. They have so little cash they are exploring sources of financing so they can even file for bankruptcy.
BTW - Bankruptcy doesn't necessarily mean Remington will go out of business. Many companies recover and continue business after declaring a bankruptcy, e.g. GM.
Not too many people like John Olin left nowadays.
[QUOTE="BRAD DYSINGER, post: 41366, member: 41"
Fox reported that the company had been dogged by falling sales since one of its guns was used at Sandy Hook in 2012. What planet did this reporter live on. For starters it was a Bushmaster and not a Remington[/QUOTE]
Both Bushmaster and Remington were part of the Freedom Group. Illion is the manufacturing site for most the the guns produced by Freedom Group. Bushmasters were (are?) manufactured at Illion.
I can't remember exactly but I don't think Soros owned Bushmaster until some time after 2012, Freedom group consolidated a lot of firearm names under their ownership in a short period of time, but no way were Bushmaster sales suffering in 2012, 13,14, 15, 16. So if that is Remington's excuse it doesn't fly. . Not until Donald Trump was elected did their sales go down after Nov 2016 through 2017.
Bushmaster was a Conn Company at the time of Sandy Hook, not Illion NY. Sandy Hook Shooter used a Bushmaster and not an R15 Remington. Brad
Bushmaster was located in Conn at the time of Sandy Hook and that is where they were produced. They made the R15 frames for Remington so it's the other way around I believe. In any event I was a FFL gun dealer at the time (04 to late 2016) and after Sandy Hook all gun sales went through the roof so I know for a fact that Black gun sales didn't lag, so They were not dogged by slow sales, it was just the opposite.
Freedom Group acquired a lot of Gun names. Gun manufactures have a history of nearsightedness look at S&W and Colt as examples. They can't remember what got them to where they were and change their business model and go poof. Brad
I think I double posted but you get the idea.
In this case, bankruptcy means they have too much debt. Nearly a billion dollars in debt. Cerberus could not sell Remington years ago. So they loaded it up with debt, now they can not make the payments. Google "private equity debt leverage wringer" and it will explain it. Instead of selling Remington to a buyer 5 years ago, which they could not, they pocketed the extra 700 million in bonds and will now let the bond holders take the company from them. In effect, since they couldn't sell, they took 700 million of debt and paid themselves, then let the company default and be taken from them. They used bankruptcy laws to sell the company that they could not sell any other way. The pre-packaged bankruptcy plan calls for the holders of the defaulted bonds to assume control of the company. The bankruptcy financing is not because they "can't afford to go bankrupt," it is a legal move to assure certain creditors get paid while bankruptcy occurs, and generates nice fees to the people who do it.
Done deal - Debt-holders will get majority equity stake in Remington according to Bloomberg.
THE UNIONS DID IT AGAIN !!!
Maybe it was not the unions.
Sounds to me like the ownership just turned Remington into a cash cow when they were not able to sell. I think there were some assertions along those lines earlier in the thread.
In the Depression, Remington again flirted with financial failure. In 1933 DuPont took control of Remington and its sunburst logo was dropped from cartridge boxes and advertising. Also in 1933, the new company acquired the Chamberlin Cartridge & Target Company (subsequently renamed the Chamberlin Target & Trap Works) for $66,000. In 1934 DuPont-Remington purchased the Peters Cartridge Company for about $2.5 million and the Parker Gun Company. In 1980 DuPont purchased the remaining shares of stock of Remington and the company became a wholly-owned subsidiary.
While researching an old shell box I have, I found that this isn't the first time Remington has had financial problems.
Separate names with a comma.