Discussion in 'Trapshooting Forum' started by merlo, Feb 27, 2018.
I have been prodded by a group to ask this question?
I report. You decide.
I voted "Yes". What do I care how wide the targets are? But my "Yes" is tempered by the fact that none of the clubs I will attend this summer will throw wide targets.
If there a lot of "Yesses" I wonder if a single Ohio or Pennsylvania club will schedule a "Wider Target" tournament. Here would be a good place to announce it.
My bet it that not one club will commit to a series of wider-target ATA events. After all, many have a up-and-running games program; why mess with success?
There are a few 50 bird money shoot clubs here in Ohio where a hard right or left will pass the same tree 3 times
I believe that Northumberland Club, in PA has a shoot every year with long, wide targets.
Back in the day Jaquas had a 5_50 event. 5 hole and 50 yard target. Everybody shot it and there was no ties.
You gotta love the arrogance.
There USED to be multiple local clubs in PA throwing "registered" targets EVERY weekend. Sometimes you had to decide which club to attend. They were all within 30-40 minutes of each other so some days you could make both. Plus "registered" targets on a week day evening.
You don't have to think about 2 hole or 3 hole targets mr. ata, there are only ONE or TWO clubs that throw any kind of "registered" targets.
They rest of those clubs dumped the ata "registered" crap
If loosing 50 to 60% of your registered shooters is considered success, I guess the game should not be messed with. It is headed in a fantastic direction, we must all remember that. Roger C.
Does that mean you are happy with the outcome of your lifetime achievement award?
and Neil was instrumental in getting the 3-hole target rule rescinded. ..MN HOF Induction
Success? Got a graph for that metric?
And to add to the arrogance where does Merlo mention ATA?
Let me do a loose "translation" for the crayon eater .....
"What do I care how wide the targets are?" ..... "translation" ..... As long as the "ATA" checks keep cashing for "my group", "What do I care how wide the targets are" .....
AND ..... as long as "my group" CAN NOT BE TOUCHED IN ANY WAY , AND CAN STAY ON THE CASH COW TIT, IT WILL NOT BE CHANGED, so moot point .....
Although the ATA has become pussified while many clubs have dropped ATA shooting altogether, a few PA clubs throw well attended fun shoots consisting of wide, wider and widest angles. It's a hoot and some great scores are still broken.
I don't consider them wide or wider targets. After all the 3-hole 22° targets were narrowed from the original target angles of 45° plus 20° outside both left and right of the center stake. In other words, the original rules on angles was reduced by over a half from what the old-timers shot.
So, what was done to bolster scores? Reduce the angle setting even more; 17° and only 10° outside in search of the perfect target.
I'm hard-pressed to believe that making targets easier has had a positive effect on attracting and retaining shooters. From the early days trap shooting the word monotonous was used to describe the sport. Narrowing the flights and angles rules only adds to the monotony.
Duck and run? Cant answer the question? Time to man-up!
I would enter if Neil Winston entered just to BEAT HIM.
And I have not shot any targets in 13 months.
Gary ... Count me in as well and include Big Don, Family Guy or Just Joe.
There is the bunker, many unused, you get wide angles, faster targets, lower scores. but is not American so never mind..
I would pay good money to watch. Shooting at a real moving target instead of some static X on paper might just be his undoing.
I disagree, IMO Archie Bunker was not only American, he was a GREAT American.
+1 good one!
My wife and I loved those Beretta 5 hole 50 yard shoots at Jaqua's. She won it once and I won it 3 times. One of my wins earned me 682 Gold E combo! Those were great promotions from Jaqua's and Beretta. These were not ATA events and the rules stipulated no targets could be turned down. If it came out of the house, it was yours. Boy do I miss that gun club!
Don I remember you winning the Beretta. Now that was a trophy. We also miss Jaqua's a lot.
Boy those good old days really were something, weren't they? Did I ever tell you 'bout the time...?
Just start throwing a week of "Games" instead of the ATA registered shoot you call the "Cardinal Classic" and I'll bet you will have more entries than you can handle! Heck, you can even name annual "All Ohio & Pennsylvania Games-Teams"
and maybe someone will pay attention. All you will need is Senior Vet, after all.
As I said, "Go for it!"
The Jaquas 5 hole 50 was blast to shoot, was lucky enough to win it once and Got a 682 gold E, really miss shooting there.
Like I said you have to love the arrogance.
It looks like the CC has done just fine with the business plan Mr. Fishburn is using. The place just keeps moving in a fantastic direction and that white elephant in the middle of BFN is a joke as far as drawing shooters compared to the numbers that used to shoot the GAH. The kids will be shooting there for another, how long is that contract?, number of years instead of that place in IL. And since the ata can't get its act together after what? 12 years, they will probably stay at the CC.
That one does sting doesn't it? Never thought you would see the day huh? I don't think he has to change a thing. You and the ata on the other hand?
Here's an idea.Why don't you use all those graphs and charts to show that mouthpiece gipson how to get more shooters to show up at that place in IL.? Because the plan they are using sucks.
The loss of the OH and PA shooters wasn't going to matter because SO many more were going to show up from ALL the other states.
How's that working out?
You could post a chart or graph and that would at least get a FEW more shooters there.
Now THAT would be something you could be proud of. Instead of posting pictures of holes in paper you could actually post something useful.
Maybe get some family to donate, I know the ata loves that word donate, a few hundred thousand as an incentive to show up.
Oops, forgot they tried that already. When the money dried up the attendance did too.
As far as people "paying attention"? I would say that the 2,000+ shooters that USED to shoot the GAH paid close attention to what the ata did. They let the ata know how they felt by not going anymore.
You can take a swipe at the Sr. vet with that smart ass comment but, from what we see from your shooting, you couldn't carry his shell bag. And he WOULD beat you.
Nice caps average, keep practicing on those "real" targets. Maybe if you shot a few games with some of these guys you could learn how to be a little better shot because the ata business plan isn't the only thing that sucks.
Well, you at least got THAT right.
The question of the "good old days" was answered by a pretty good shooter on the other thread.
"Great question but actually too many great wins over the 46 years I shot. Three cars in the 70's, belt buckles with gold coins, guns, $1,000 bill, plus all the wins at the Grand American, especially the events in 1983 which was the best. The good old days are gone but never forgotten."
Read the last two words out loud a few times and you might start to understand. I would imagine that someone like you with an over inflated ego and sense of self worth will never get it but at least you could make an effort.
The sad fact is people won't be able to say that about that place in IL. I feel kinda sorry for all those shooters that only had THAT place to shoot the GAH.
The next quote is also from that same great shooter and pretty much sums up all your advise and charts.
"One would wonder why anyone with the above listed averages would be giving shooting advice to any shooter whatsoever!"
PLEASE question me about who made those statement so I can post his name and you can look stupid.
If you would stop eating crayons long enough to visit some actual "Gun Clubs", you would find out how the "average shooter" feels about seeing things like a 200x200 in "C-Class" .....
The "Cardinal Center" can "see the handwriting on the wall" ..... so I would expect to see more "non-ATA" shooting there this year .....
With the ZERO effort the "ATA" is putting into fixing their screwed up Handicap and Class systems, the time for the leeches to suck the cash out of the "ATA" is getting shorter and shorter .....
Heck ..... At this point, a week of "Games" would beat the Hell out of the current week of "Mulligan Marathons" .....
Since it would appear the Virus was directing the above quote to me I will try to give him an answer.
The Jaqua's 5/50 shoots were not exactly during the "good old days" as you have indicated. These shoots were held right up until the Jaqua's Gun club closed a couple years ago. I have no idea what you meant by "did I ever tell you 'bout the time..." unless you are somehow trying to indicate that I or we are making up the Jaqua's 5 / 50 shoots. If that was your intention I really feel sorry for you that you were never able to compete in one of those events. They were a blast!
As for your comments regarding the "shoot we call the Cardinal Classic" I am really surprised that someone of your stature with the ATA would suggest turning one of the 5 largest ATA shoots in the country into a non-ATA shoot. Do you have some sort of problem with the shoot we call the Cardinal Classic? If so, I would be interested in hearing what that problem is.
I really got a laugh out of your statement regarding the "Games Teams". You thought you were being funny but what it really shows is your attachment to the "ALL this" or "ALL that" Team concept which the ATA has gone all in on to the tune of several hundred plus All Americans. The men, women, boys and girls that shoot money games DO NOT WANT recognition on an "All Games" team. In fact it would be quite the opposite. Most would prefer you not know who they are. I realize that doesn't jive with your "look at me" concept of what shooting is about. The good folks that participate in money shooting games do so to win money not trophies or national recognition on any team. And you are sadly mistaken about only the Sr. Vets shooting money games.
Sounds like he is jealous of the success of the cardinal Classic, I am not sure he could handle Jaquas 5/50
Why have you never told the shooters your reasons for instituting the two hole spread in trap shooting? With all of the discussion about the change, why not give us your reasons. We would very much like to know why. Roger C.
I believe the ATA target police were eating too much on the members dime, grew too large to enter the traps and Sir Neil privately disbanded the group while campaigning for angles that no longer needed questioning.
Clubs were throwing them anyway so they decided to make the narrower angles "official".
Translation, if we let the "members" shoot higher scores they will stay "members" and the dues and fees will keep coming.
Follow the money
Separate names with a comma.