NOT A HOAX! Pals say Bradford & trustees gave up ownership of HOF

Discussion in 'Trapshooting Forum - Americantrapshooter.com' started by merlo, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. merlo

    merlo Mega Poster Forum Reporter

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    You may think I am making this up. Straight from my pals in the trenches. Bradford and the trustees could have owned the HOF building and museum. It was proposed that they own it. Not the State of Illinois.

    Was Bradford trying to create a baby anchor? How can this be?

    I report. You decide.

    Merlo out
     
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  2. History Seeker

    History Seeker A NoBody Official Historian Founding Member

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    No doubt about it Merlo !

    Too much TRUTHFUL information has been uncovered over the years for any denial.
     
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  3. Roger Coveleskie

    Roger Coveleskie Elite Poster Founding Member

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    The money trail is worn deep around the deals made by the people in charge of the organization. I have said many times;
    (evil will prevail, when men of honor do nothing) It is amazing how many will sully their name for so little. Roger C.
     
  4. History Seeker

    History Seeker A NoBody Official Historian Founding Member

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    At the club over the weekend I was asked why that horse barn cost so much ?

    And after I told the guy I have no idea, he asked IF The BOT of the THOF had hired local labor (NON UNION), or followed State policy and hired UNION labor to build that thing ?

    He went on to tell me he used to live in Illinois, and using UNION labor would inflate the cost by 2 to 3 times what non-union would have.

    Anyone actually know ?

    I don't, but from what I have seen on the cost of that barn, they almost must have.
     
  5. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    Since the property was owned by the State Of Illinois, all work done on State owned property must be done by union labor and or if not union, " prevailing wages" which are the same as union --must be paid

    I was an electrical contractor in NJ and am very familiar with these regulations and if you use non-union labor, some union workers will weasel their way on to the job &"help" you out sabotage, cut wires short, fill conduits with concrete & short circuit equipment before over current devices--all they do is cost insurance companies $$$'s
     
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  6. HistoryBuff

    HistoryBuff State HOF Official Historian Member State Hall of Fame Founding Member Forum Leader

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    Can I assume that Merlo has found additional information confirming that Trapshooting Hall of Fame, Inc. could have retained ownership of the new museum built with supporter's funds?

    We already know
    the Illinois Governor, the Department of Natural Resources Director and WSRC Project Manager Mike Hampton (long-time ATA member) all promised the ATA and THOF in writing, either free land or free use of land to erect their respective structures.

    2003 IDNR OFFER TO ATA, pt.1.jpg
    2003 IDNR OFFER TO ATA, pt.2.jpg
    2003 IDNR OFFER TO ATA, pt.3.jpg

    Every Trustee was obligated to make decisions in the best interests and for the welfare of the Trapshooting Hall of Fame, Inc.

    They failed miserably in their duties, seemingly caring more for the welfare of the State of Illinois than the organization they've been entrusted to care for.
    THOF Trustees deceived supporters who made donations to the construction of the new museum. How? They purposely stayed silent on the issue of ownership, allowing donors to naturally believe the Trapshooting Hall of Fame would own the offices and museum they were funding. I view deception as I do lies and cheating.

    Integrity is paramount and the Trustees proved they lack this important character. Shame on every one of them.

    The Phantom correctly raises the point :

    "that a large group of innocent, unsuspecting bumpkins got screwed by a questionable decision. Is there anybody here who thinks they should have to pay for something they don't own?"

    Trustees unwisely took advantage of the kindness and trust expressed by long-standing supporters. Those now aware of their deception regarding the Trustees decision to donate the museum to Illinois and remain silent on the issue will forever be leery. That single decision by Trustees will haunt the highly regarded Trapshooting Hall of Fame organization in the future.

    Trustees harmed this famous institution. Their actions have caused hesitation among supporters who freely trusted their donations would be wisely used for the organization. The 2014 Financial Statement reported over $1.5 million pledged for the new museum.

    2014 Pledged Construction Funds.jpg

    Fundraising wasn't as successful as Trustees predicted. They secured loans of nearly $1 million while continuing to request funds, still neglecting to inform potential donors that the museum they paid for was being given to Illinois.

    2015 Notes Payable For Construction.jpg


    Should there ever be a need to relocate, the distrust the organization's leaders have brought on themselves, will surely hurt fundraising efforts for construction of a new museum. They have brought irreparable harm to our historical institution.

    The first question is "why" give a $2.1 million dollar museum to a State government?

    The second question is "why" not be honest and transparent with those being asked to donate?
     
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  7. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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    The correct term is "anchor baby."

    To suggest that giving away the property would in some way create an "anchor baby" is ridiculous on its face. Ownership is the function through which you create an anchor. Merlo, why the silly wild goose chases?

    If there is anyone here who has the balls to present evidence that either Mr. Bradford or any of the members of the board of trustees committed a crime, then it is incumbent upon you to come forward and make your case. If you can't make the case, back off.
     
  8. rickyd

    rickyd Active Member

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    If Illinois owned the building the HOF could not sell it to finance a move. That appears to be the case. The HOF put over 2 million into something they can’t sell. Trying to help Phantom. No dog in this fight.
     
  9. green bead

    green bead Active Member

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    The HOF can’t even use the building as collateral now. LOL. And they still owe. Call it baby anchor or anchor baby....either way they paid for it and are still paying. They can’t leave.
     
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  10. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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    When, and IF, Illinois shutters WSRC, THOF Bldg. will have no real value to anyone, regardless of who owns it. Illinois can use it for a warehouse, but they already have plenty of warehouse space given the industrial exodus from its stagnant economy. One benefit of not owning the building will be that there won't be any real estate tax liability, but there isn't a DIRECT tax liability against THOF now.

    The point, of course, is that without WSRC, THOF Bldg. has absolutely no resale value anyhow. The key to everything can be found somewhere under the State of Illinois. If Illinois shits the bed, ATA, and THOF, will be homeless.

    Now, it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure that out. The albatross lives and is growing larger with each new year. That is a reality even the most twisted mind can not deny. The time for soul searching is over. It's time to start acting! Where are the heroes?
     
  11. green bead

    green bead Active Member

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    ?????? Did you say that? ??????
    If IL shuttered the joint the HOF would not be homeless. Would have had a little capital.
     
  12. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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    Illinois OWNS the structure. It is legally arguable that Illinois also owns the contents. If Illinois, for any reason, be it fiscal irresponsibility or otherwise, closes WSRC, they also close their building and all of the surrounding infrastructure.

    Where will THOF go? Who will pay for it? Who will pay off the bank note?

    As History Buff pointed out earlier, who would trust anything associated with the ATA and THOF ever again? How many times does someone have to be lied to before they face the truth?
     
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  13. green bead

    green bead Active Member

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    They cant do any of that if they don’t own the building. Stuck.
     
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  14. merlo

    merlo Mega Poster Forum Reporter

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    Attention to clause (C) right of first refusal
    Special thanks to you guys in the trenches that get this stuff.

    HOF1.jpg


    PG 02 - Free Land Lease.jpg

    PG 08 - First Right To Purchase THOF Building.jpg


    I am not an attorney but it appears the original offer was for the HOF to own the building they were to build.

    Why would someone give away a $2 million building?

    I report. You decide.
    Merlo out
     
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  15. BRAD DYSINGER

    BRAD DYSINGER State HOF Staff Member Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Member State Hall of Fame Founding Member

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    Merlo to answer your question that would be because Bradford cared less what was best for the HOF, he just wanted to make sure that Sparta survived, not what was best for trap shooting or the clubs that were members of the ATA just Sparta and the Illinois grand, everything else be damned.
     
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  16. merlo

    merlo Mega Poster Forum Reporter

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    Full copy PDF of IDNR lease offering....As requested.>>>>
    (thanks to you guys that get this stuff)

    I report. You decide.
    Merlo out
     

    Attached Files:

  17. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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    Merlo and Support Team,

    Thank you very much. The document you were kind enough to provide is a rough draft. Would you be kind enough to publish the pertinent final fully executed document which should include the dated signatures of all the principals?

    Respectfully,

    The Phantom
     
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  18. Union Strong

    Union Strong Well-Known Member

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    Phantom
    I found myself laughing at your post requesting a document on a thread you commented on several times. and just a few days ago!!! Too funny. Usually you seem very bright.

    Anyway I used the search option here. And there was the thread. Can you copy and paste? lol

    americantrapshooter.com/index.php?threads/ata-hall-of-fame-idnr-lease-sparta-hof.9150/
     
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  19. BRAD DYSINGER

    BRAD DYSINGER State HOF Staff Member Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Member State Hall of Fame Founding Member

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    Merlo and everyone else I think the important fact about this the letter sent to Bradford from the IDNR is the date of October 7, 2009. Take this date and offer for what it was, it was offered right after, less than 2 months in fact, after those of us from the Cardinal Center and OSTA went to Sparta with Jack's and the OSTA offer for the HOF to have their building and free land at the CC, the offer that Bradford blew off. I think this letter was a sham from the beginning to throw the HOF trustees ( or more probably the members of the ATA) off what the real behind the door deal that Bradford and the Illinois government was cooking up all along. Just Everyone Remember that the situation the HOF and their building finds themselves in is Bradford's turkey from start to finish.

    I don't think the HOF every had any other choice but the one they ended up with if they were going to have a HOF museum at Bradford's Choice of Sparta Illinois, government owned or not what difference does it matter?. None to the HOF Trustees, Gibson, Bradford, or the EC.
     
  20. History Seeker

    History Seeker A NoBody Official Historian Founding Member

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    635-G,

    Thank you for setting the record straight about the Union labor. Very interesting for sure.

    NOW, for all to think about.

    Take a look at #1 in the MEMORANDOM OF UNDERSTANDING.

    The mention that the lands would also be available for ORGANIZATIONAL HEADQUARTERS.

    And (C) in the letter to Mike Hampton also eludes to the same thing.

    NOW I ask, WHY in hell did they go outside the grounds, and get involved with that 2012 PULL LLC deal ???

    Were WE, (the at that time members of the ATA), taken ?

    I ASK, YOU Decide !!!
     
  21. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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    Have you read every word in the June 1, 2014 executed THOF/IDNR lease agreement? Have you read it more than ten times? Is the clipping from the 2009 rough draft presented above by Merlo evident in the executed document from June 1, 2014?

    Between October 7, 2009 and June 1, 2014, how many "rough drafts" were there? Were there any other executed documents which were then superseded by the June 1, 2014 document?

    There is more to this than meets the eye. And it's not funny.
     
  22. Roger Coveleskie

    Roger Coveleskie Elite Poster Founding Member

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    REMEMBER SOME OF THE EC AND X-OFFICIOS, have experience in real estate trans actions. Some of them I think are still on the property attainment committee. Maybe there was a deal made that could not be refused. Roger C.
     
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  23. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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    Roger,

    I've been looking into the "Real Estate" issues. I am really surprised that one of our members from an area not too far from The Randolph County Court House (Saprta, Ill) hasn't gone to the courthouse and conducted in depth title searches on the various real estate transactions on the WSRC grounds which would have necessitated property transfers. Key dates would be from about 1990 until the present.

    There are some interesting questions which might arise. Like, maybe, a few tax questions, if you get my drift.

    This is just the beginning.
     
  24. harryone

    harryone Moderator

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    There is a plethora of documents on the site. Many before you have walked those steps. Suggest using the search bar at the top.
     
  25. STaT mAn STaN

    STaT mAn STaN Well-Known Member

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    Just the facts mam....,

    We know the HOF building is owned by the State of Illinois
    We know the ATA charged shooters an extra fee to pay for the building.
    Bradford said he can raise millions
    HOF building cost $2.2 million and Illinois did not pay for it
    We know the early offering from the IDNR was for the HOF to own it.

    We don’t know who made the decision to give the HOF building to Illinois.
    We dont know who knew there was a choice.

    Who were the trustees then?
     
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  26. Roger Coveleskie

    Roger Coveleskie Elite Poster Founding Member

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    I have been around the horn for 83 years. I know from experience no one gives a $2.2 million dollar building away without something in return. I do not care how dumb the giver may be.
    Maybe that is the reason the Illinois A.G. was not interested in looking into the neferious actions of the EC. Just a thought that cross my mind. I do not know if the dates would jive.
    STaT mAn STan, My guess would be the head of the building committee. He did not consult with the other members when he turned down the offer from the C.C. Roger C.
     
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  27. Warren61

    Warren61 Active Member

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    I don’t think the HOF has a building / property committee.

    As Klink would say.....very interesting. Now how do you explain this to donors? HOF is a non-profit?
     
  28. History Seeker

    History Seeker A NoBody Official Historian Founding Member

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    IF the State owns everything inside, along with the building, WHY would the THOF be relocating ???

    They would have NOTHING to relocate, unless they bought back the contents from the State of Illinois.
     
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  29. Family Guy

    Family Guy Americantrapshooter.com King of Posters Founding Member

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    There might be some logical explanation for why they decided not to own their own building. I do not get why they would not want to own something they built.

    Lets call this a public shout out to the trustees.
     
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  30. wpt

    wpt Forum Leader Founding Member Forum Leader

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    The absolute best deal the HOF was offered was by Cardinal Center, instead they deal with the Devil and pay for the building they cannot and will never own ... Shows a lack of common sense and business knowledge, but the members can continue to pay for their mistakes .... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  31. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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    Harryone,

    Thank you. I did as you suggested. I learned a lot that helped me put together the pieces of the puzzle that have been swirling around in my head for a while. I realize the die is cast. It's true, you can't put toothpaste back in the tube.

    Best regards,

    The Phantom
     
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  32. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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    History Buff,

    Thank you. It was through your work and the revelations it inspired in others that I was able to see.

    Best regards,

    The Phantom
     
  33. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member Forum Leader

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    Never own?

    The ata is supposed to have 19M in the bank, give or take a few hundred thousand, so some day they might offer to buy it from ILLnews. Be a heck of a deal for what? A couple million?
     
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  34. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member Forum Leader

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    Maybe they could get Gipson Reality to broker the deal.

    The state says they want 1.75 million and LG tells the ata he knows a guy and they can buy the building back for only 1.9 million.

    Wouldn't that just be fantastic?
     
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  35. BRAD DYSINGER

    BRAD DYSINGER State HOF Staff Member Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Member State Hall of Fame Founding Member

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    I'd like to see a graph.....
     
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  36. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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    Nah! You got it all wrong. That deal will go down for pennies on the dollar...and a brown grocery bag will be involved...after dark...behind the WalMart.
     
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  37. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member Forum Leader

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    I would bet a buck there is another guy that would like to see one more too.
     

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