Illinois ammo taxes upheld - firearm taxes next? TOLD YOU SO

Discussion in 'Trapshooting Forum - Americantrapshooter.com' started by WILSON.00, Dec 29, 2018.

  1. WILSON.00

    WILSON.00 New Member

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    Illinois courts have upheld their "own" right to self rule with the ammo tax on centerfire ammo.

    Who didn't know this would happen?
    Cook County Circuit Court Judge David B. Atkins upheld Cook County’s gun and ammo tax in a ruling dated Aug. 17.

    Atkins agreed with county officials the tax didn’t violate either the Second or Fourteenth Amendments of the U.S. Constitution, and didn’t violate the uniformity clause of the Illinois Constitution. Moreover, Atkins found nothing in the ordinance that restricts gun ownership.
    -----

    “Plaintiffs provide no evidence that the Tax will have the effect of preventing their ownership or possession of firearms or that it affects the ability of law-abiding citizens to retain sufficient means of self-defense,” Atkins wrote. “Unlike those cases involving a weapons ban, the tax in this case neither takes away firearms nor restricts their ownership possession and does not burden the right.”

    Cook County Board President Toni Preckwinkle applauded the ruling, saying Atkins’ opinion “upholds our position that the taxes are proper exercise of the County’s Home Rule powers and do not in any meaningful way impede an individual’s ability to exercise their 2nd Amendment right to bear arms.”

    The case is Guns Save Life, Inc. v. Ali, Ill. Cir. Ct., No. 2015-CH-18217, 8/17/18.
     
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  2. Remshooter

    Remshooter Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    How much is the tax?
     
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  3. WILSON.00

    WILSON.00 New Member

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    Point is that it really doesn't matter now. The quote is home rule. State and counties in Illinois can do any tax they want on firearms and ammo.

    That tax isn't there to make money. It is to discourage firearm owners.
     
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  4. Krieghoff-80

    Krieghoff-80 Well-Known Member

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    Reloading just got cheaper.
     
  5. Garry

    Garry Mega Poster

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  6. BAMA

    BAMA Well-Known Member

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    Just heard on the news Illinois lost over 45,000 residents in 2017.
     
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  7. Par4

    Par4 Well-Known Member

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    The title says Illinois tax. The text says a Cook County Circuit Court Judge ruled on a Cook County tax. Further down it says the Cook County Board President praised the decision. I do not believe a FOID card holder is limited to purchasing ammunition to the county in which he/she resides. We have all paid taxes on new guns and ammunition since 1937 as a result of the Pittman-Robertson Act.

    Illinois has 102 Counties. Illinois has nearly 58,000 square miles. Cook County has fewer than 1700 of those square miles. Cook County borders five other counties in Illinois as well as the State of Indiana.

    Nobody likes new taxes. However, the breadth and scope of new taxes need to be seen in the proper context.

    I am not sure why the Plaintiff’s organization hired a lawyer on this one. Maybe the lawyer took it pro bono. Maybe he is a member of the organization. Maybe the lawyer just needed the practice. :)
     
  8. SCTPKANSAS

    SCTPKANSAS New Member

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    ????? Par4---you are implying no big deal since the state's ruling was about the tax in Cook County. Yes it was. But it implied such a tax is good for the whole state. That is the proper context. These taxes are legal in Illinois. At least that is what Illinois says. I think that is OP point.

    This would not fly in KS.
     
  9. Par4

    Par4 Well-Known Member

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    @SCTPKANSAS

    Let me put it another way:

    The State of Illinois and its various political sub-divisions are notorious for these kinds of measures. The State enacted the law which created the FOID card. The City of Morton Groove enacted a local ordinance banning handguns in that Illinois political subdivision.

    Folks in Illinois have been electing less than wholesome candidates for office for a long time. Al Capone was born in New York. He picked Chicago for the climate. I do not mean the weather.

    Nobody should be surprised by this latest. Cook County has passed a local county ordinance characterized as to purpose as to having the goal to reduce homicides in the City of Chicago: the current murder capital of the United States. The ordinance is directed at certain undefined by the OP centerfire calibers. Maybe the OP will fill in the centerfire calibers so folks in Peoria IL or Topeka KS will not suspect the ordinance applies to .22 caliber rimfire and 12 gauge shotgun shells.

    However, for reasons known only to the OP or reasons not known to the OP, the OP mischaracterized the meaning of a local ordinance as having the impact of a state law. I hope Kansas is equipped with better schools.

    A lower court judge has found the ordinance did not violate State Law, the State Constitution or the Constitution of the United States. Such has been the case in regard to other local ordinances. Some are upheld on appeal and some are overturned. It is often money better spent to support local candidates with a more intelligent view of the impact of such foolishness and the willingness to drop the ordinance following the next election cycle.

    The National Firearms Act of 1934 placed taxes on certain kinds of firearms and devices such as silencers. Those items are still taxed at the federal level today. That tells me the circuit court judge there in Cook County has not erred in regards to the US Constitution for the purpose of the application of current case law precedent. I am certain the judge there knows more about the law and the constitution of his state than I. Maybe the OP can tell us the section of state law or the state constitution which clearly demonstrates how the judge has erred or ventured into judicial activism.
     
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  10. Palos shooter

    Palos shooter Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    The Crook County bullet tax is 5 cents a round for center fire and a 1 cent for rim fire ..
    You would have to be a fool to purchase anything firearms related in the county. My car is my friend it takes me to a different state for any of these
    Purchases. Remember the soda tax failed big time..
     
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  11. fortycaliberglock

    fortycaliberglock Active Member

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    This reminds me of NJ. Like Illinois, NJ is a horrible state for gun owners. It has long been a horrible state for gun owners. It will always be a horrible state for gun owners. No amount of political organizing and activism by gun owners will change that. You have two choices, accept that your state sucks regarding the 2nd Amendment or move. That's it. I moved to a much friendlier state. I do not miss NJ. I would never go back there. And, I don't give a rip what they do with guns in NJ. NJ is terrible, and it will get worse. If you live in NJ or IL and you care deeply about the 2nd Amendment, move.
     
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  12. BRAD DYSINGER

    BRAD DYSINGER Founding Member Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Founding Member

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    You are right.
     
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  13. longrange

    longrange Member

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    Time to move out of Illinois
     
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  14. Brad's friend (I hope)

    Brad's friend (I hope) A NoBody Founding Member

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    I think New York and Cuomo will not be far behind.
     
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  15. wpt

    wpt Ultra Elite Poster Founding Member

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    If the Newly elected Governor of Illinois gets his way there is going to be hell to pay in the coming years ... The guy is like the proverbial Bull in a China shop according to the State of Illinois web site, has his sights on many areas in the State that are interfering with there being a balanced budget ... The State of Illinois Pension system is the biggest drain they have and there is no fix for that until those on pension die off ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  16. BRAD DYSINGER

    BRAD DYSINGER Founding Member Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Founding Member

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    I was told today that the new gov raised the minimum wage to 13 bucks. Trap help got a lot more expensive at sparta if that's the case.
     
  17. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member

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    Since both my son and daughter in their early years (they are 47 and 50 now) and now my Grandchildren have all worked in the "service" industry (waitstaff) I know the "minimum wage" never applied to them. They got paid next to nothing because the feds figured they received TIPS.

    So, all the ata has to do to bypass the new minimum wage requirements, if they even pertain to help at that place in IL., is pay them around $5.00 an hour and ADD A GRATUITY TO THE DAILY FEES. This way the shooters wouldn't have to rack their brains trying to compute the amount to TIP the people. Easy as a piece of that great pie we used to get in Vandalia. I think a nice round number like $1.00 per shooter per field would cover it. That's only $4.00 per hundred extra per shooter.

    There could be a sign in the main area.

    DUE TO THIS YEARS SHOOT BEING HELD IN THE STATE OF ILLINOIS WE ARE FORCED
    TO ADD A $4.00 PER HUNDRED "GRATUITY" TO THE DAILY SHOOTING COST.
    ALL PARTICIPANTS ARE ENCOURAGED TO COMPENSATE THE TRAP HELP EVEN
    MORE WHEN COMING OFF THE FIRING LINE.

    IT IS ALSO RECOMENDED THAT THE SHOOTERS TIP ANY AND EVERY WSRC EMPLOYEE THEY
    COME IN CONTACT WITH DURING THEIR STAY.
    THANK YOU,
    the TD

    Of course someone would have to keep track of the money to MAKE SURE IT WENT TO THE HELP and not in some other fantastic direction.

    It is IL. after all.

    I'm sure NOT ONE of the thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of shooters that attend that shoot in August would begrudge those people getting paid what would add up to $13.00 per hour. All THEY have to do is PAY IT OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKETS. The ata big shot officials could of course pay more if they felt so inclined. This would be leading by example. Help the local people out a little and all that.

    Problem solved!
     
  18. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member

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    Whomever has the duty? Pass this suggestion along to the REAL Trap shooters that go to that place in IL.
    I just hope the number of shooters attending that shoot in August is high enough to add the money needed to pay the help.
     
  19. Elsie

    Elsie Well-Known Member

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    I saw where the new Illinois governor who has been in office less than a week just signed a new gun law. The TV people were saying the law would require all dealers selling guns in IL be required to have an Illinois firearm license in addition to the Federal FFL. In this report the reporter said the new state license would cost $1500 a year. Wonder how many tent dealers at the Grand are going to pony up $1500 for one week? Shooter attendance is already down at the Grand, chase away the vendors and then the shoppers stop coming what will be left??
     
  20. Larry

    Larry Mega Poster Founding Member

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    Looking across the nation I suspect that everywhere the Democrats have a foothold there will be additional taxation and further infringement on all rights of US citizens..... Oregon congress (both houses Democrat) and our Queer governor are considering a large tax on all firearms and ammunition, any firearm that holds over 5 rounds will be illegal and ammunition purchases are limited to 20 rounds per month...... Larry
     
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  21. BRAD DYSINGER

    BRAD DYSINGER Founding Member Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Founding Member

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    That fantastic direction just keeps on going for sparta doesn't it. Larry Ohio has all republican's in office. ATA left us for illinois. Great Move, maybe they can move to California next, farther away from the Trap Shooters and even more anti gun.
     
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  22. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member

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    The ata pays for ALL the campgrounds then rents them out to satisfy the "promised" money the state was supposed to receive right?

    If this proposed increase happens all the ata has to do is pay for the license fee for each dealer and they will flock to set up at the biggest shoot of the year.

    Of course they will have to put up another sign at the entry building to inform the shooters that there will be a "little" increase in the daily "fee" to cover it.
     
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  23. Larry

    Larry Mega Poster Founding Member

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    The OP states "TOLD YOU SO". Whenever that statement is used it is basically pointing out we lost....... There has to be a way to save our nation and our citizens but I damn sure do not know what it is.
    Another batch of invaders on the way North and all the Dems can say is that it is a "created" crisis...... no matter what adjective is used it is still a crisis..... Guaranteed that Pelosi/Schumer can tell us just who is behind it...... but it is free votes for them and their kind so it all just fine for them.......... Larry
     
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  24. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member

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    IF the license increase does go into effect the more likely senario is the dealers would be charged a "weekly" fee.
    The IL resident dealer would have to pay $1,500 per year. That's about $28.84 a week.
    Part time non resident dealer at that shoot for two weeks? I would think $200.00 each dealer would make the politicians happy.
    Then the ata could pay for it and wouldn't have to erect another sign.
     
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