Gipson wants U. S. Open to have high point value regardless of attendance.

As per ATA minutes: About the U.S. Open

Executive Director Gipson recommended that the tournament be treated no differently than it was in 2016 and 2017, that it be a guaranteed All American factor of "4" and points on the final 1,300 targets.

Guaranteed regardless of attendance?

Is this recommendation in the best interest of the ATA or Gipson Guns?

Conflict of interest?

I report. You decide.

Merlo out.

 

Looks like the ATA. 1300 targets & 4 point factor is good for the ATA and the shooters!

 

Why discriminate ?

May as well make it the same for the Satellite Grands...4 points minimum and higher

That is a sure fire way to get the point chasers out to more shoots.

 

The above post is proof Tshot is a clueless wonder. The points are supposed to go to the largest shoots not to the shoot that benefits Gipson the most.

(a mod told me he is from IL) Guy is a joke. Doesn't want to travel to real shoot with appropriate points.

 

The ATA is in a transition period, they are going to do what they want, when they want, if you don't like it quit like the others did before you ... Lynn (The Talking Head ) Gipson gets paid a lot of money to come up with these ideas ... One of these days they are going to have the "to Hell in a hand basket shoot" when all else fails to produce the numbers needed to generate 20/30 million in and around the WSRC .... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Give T a chance. Let him tell us why it is good.

 

If you attend all of the satellite grands, you will see most of the same people in attendance at everyone of them. Nothing against them, but the ATA and Mr Gipson are on the wrong track. If they want to improve attendance at large shoots, they must give the least accomplished shooters a chance of winning something. Try enforcing the rules as posted in the rule book. Make clubs set legal targets, for height, speed and spread. Many of the poorer shooters miss these poorly set targets and have no idea why. Get hi-gun out of the handicap payoffs. Go back to 60-40% on the 25 target purses and 50-30-20% on the fifties. They spend to much time trying to hid from the members to get any improvements in to the game. Bill Martin has done more to promote the game in the last 10 or more years, than the EC has done in the last 25Years to promote our sport. For all of his good actions, the EC will do something stupid to negate all of his efforts. Hiding ownership of the H.O.F. building, and the PULL 2012 deal, are just a couple that come to mind. Roger C.

 

I have a gut feeling that without The Martins money the ATA would of washed out of Sparta by now ... If The Martins ever decide the grand goes to Tucson guess where its going, and probably increase the attendance records but they will lose all of the shooters they picked up when they made the move to Sparta, Ill (all 3 or 4 of them ) ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I don't see how making it a 4 factor is putting money in Gipsons pocket. But I do agree with Roger get the Hi-Gun out of the purse! That would help and do it at all shoots! And I agree on the other options too. I can't believe I agree with Roger! LOL

 

Personally, I think all shoots should have a purse (jackpot) something on the "Championship Targets" be it singles, doubles, and or handicap ... It does not have to be a lot of money but something so the winner can say they won something ... With all of the computer programs they have today the Pro's could shoot against the Pros and go right on down the line ... Break the money up and be realistic, might just bring back some or a bunch of shooters ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Dear clueless wonder.....
There is a gun business with the word "Gipson" attached to it on the WSRC property. Puffing up the shoot to be more than it is, is in the best interest of any business on the property. It amazes me why someone has to re-re-re-explain this to you.....unless of course you are clueless.

 

OK I'll bite for the sake of Smithy's friend.

Why didn't Gipson ask his pals to guarantee a "4" value for the Cardinal Shoots?

 

Lynn (The Talking Head ) Gipson does not have an interest in or at the Cardinal Center so for him to promote the Club would not benefit him personally ... The Cardinal Center on its worse day will have a bigger draw than the WSRC on its best, so he wants to kick up some dust and make it look better to shooters who do not attend now , much like the Mini grand itself at the WSRC, if they spread shit all over the place it won't and can't draw fly's ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Smithy do you think that making it a 4 is going to make the ( point chasers) as you call them flock to his place and buy more trap guns? Maybe it's just more WSRC & ATA bashing? I think so.

 

T Shot, They can not draw more point chasers, but they will draw shooters from the small clubs. After the ATA goes in the tank, maybe some people will step up and reorganize the association to be what it was intended to be, a leader in promoting the sport of trap shooting. They a catering to less than 2000 shooters with their AA points. There were less than that many that were qualified to make the expanded spots on the all American teems, how is that helping to expand the shooters in the sport. Get back to promoting the small clubs, they are the incubators for shooting. Not the large shoots. I would love to see a business plan put out by the EC as to how they intend to grow the ranks of trap shooters. It seems they have no direction other than promoting stuff that does not work. Have they ever ask the members for suggestions? We as members would like to have a hand in saving our sport, but we are not permitted to help. Sad but true, it seems we have no one at the helm with any forward vision. Roger C.

 

He can only hope. Right?
How many more would be there if they said it was only going to be a "2" or a "3" because of low turnout? Gipson didn't say "2". Buy a clue.

 

Smithy

Would you go there to shoot unless there was something extra added? Travel to motels is 2 hours a day and prices are too high for that. You see few of your friends there due to the layout. What would you think Gipson would do? What would you do?

Conflict of interest has never been an issue the ATA wants to tackle.

 

Tshot doesn't support the place either.

 

I support it much more than you or most on here. I have to EVERY Grand & several other shoots & spent other times just camping. What have you done at the WSRC??

 

It should be pretty obvious that most people don't care about what goes on at WRSC. If staring at dozens of unused trapfields in the middle of nowhere is your bag go for it. If you want to see some real trapshoots you might want to journey farther east. PA and OH hold some real dandies. We don't have to pull a trailer as there's plenty of nearby infrastructure to support our habit.

 

I flew over it once but that was a long time ago ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Roger C., What can the ATA do to promote small clubs? Should it be up to the State association? New York has a calendar of local shoots on it's website and the ATA sends emails about upcoming local shoots. I think this is helpful. What are your ideas? Just asking. Thanks.

 

Come on Mike J. Merlo's got a great "cast" going and you hijack his thread! Be careful or you'll be put on Joe's naughty list!!

 

Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread. I think the discussion is about trying to get the ATA to function better in promoting the sport.

I would say that one thing they could do better is to provide better coverage of shoot offs during major shoots over the internet. I looked at the North/South shoot off on the internet and the camera was not working. This is unacceptable. Look at the videos the issf produces for trap shooting. I would like to see such videos with the top shooters during major shoot offs.

 

Mike J, Small clubs around me are doing fine, the 2 & 3 trap clubs hold Lewis class meat shoots NON ATA. Trap shooting and ATA shooting are two different animals. When Vandalia closed the need for Ohio Shooters to shoot ATA vanished and they went back to what they always did in the winter to the small clubs that have fun shoots. The clubs that Ohio has lost were the mid size that lived on ATA (like Jaqua's and Great Eastern) not the real small clubs that never shot ATA anyhow.

All my years travailing shooting trap the western shooters never understood that trap shooting in the east was really a small club deal and some of those shooters would register enough each year to shoot the Grand. The western shooters back in the day thought that by moving the grand their way it would increase there state's trap shooting but they were wrong because out west trap was mainly an ATA driven event, they were wrong of course as the numbers prove. It is sometimes hundreds of miles between trap clubs out west, here by me I have 10 clubs within 30 minutes of my house.

All the EC's drive the last dozen year's has been to prop up Sparta, nothing to promote the ATA in general. If you don't believe me just search all the scams they have tried to make the grand bigger and the results. Shooters like 10Guns who are clueless will always be clueless. The numbers don't lie, in the late 70's and early 80's 100,000 ATA members, today around 32,000 of which almost half are kids from the SCTP that are forced to be members even though they get nothing from their membership. So the ATA is where it is today. Brad

 

Brad, I started shooting post Vandalia. No I am not young, just started late. Obviously you know a lot more about trap history than I do. My local club does not shoot ATA but at least 7 of us are members of the ATA. Five joined last year after talking to the two of us who were already members. I did the 15 hours drive out to Sparta couple times and must say that I like the place. Accommodation is very expensive there because of the limited number of hotels available. This to me, seems like it was a bad siting choice and could be a major reason why attendance is not as high as it should be. I am just interested in making the sport better.

 

I have been a Life Member of the ATA since 1975, the ATA has never actively promoted trap shooting even though that is what they claim they do ... The existence of the Grand and shooting it was a big deal, not so anymore reflected by attendance records ... The little grass roots clubs and those members are the real promoters of the ATA/ trap shooting as well as the biggest supporters of the existence of the ATA by the collecting of daily fees if or when they shoot registered targets ... This has been the support of the ATA for as long as I can remember until all of a sudden there is a mini grand at clubs all across the country and more popping up every day ... Grand is a term that has been whored out to give people the idea its a big shoot like what the Grand used to be ... Those days are long gone, the loss of membership can attest to that ... Many of the smaller clubs are not shooting any less, they are just not shooting registered being as they have been ignored by the ATA which has not been a benefit to them for years ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

How many would expect Mr. Gipson to say......

This shoot where my family has a business can stand on it's own merit. I don't want additional points put up without cause because the obvious self serving conflict would be obvious.

 

It is a good shoot. Cardinal Center just has a better shoot that weekend.

 

I am by no means suggesting this but FYI, any club can hold a shoot with or without the blessing of the ATA on any given weekdays or week end they desire ... The Club can use the money that would of been paid to the ATA for the programs, trophy's, and trinkets they would provide to get the programs which can be printed and even mailed by a local printer who would probably love to have the business ... The money the ATA gets from the club to host a shoot can be used for added monies, jackpots, door prizes, and get the same exact quality of trophy's the ATA would provide and cut out the middle man and eliminate having to pay for any of the ATA Brass hats to show up and be entertained, fed, and catered to ... Let them put all the points they want on the shoot and have some , any other club give them a reason to not go there ( better $$$) and sit back and watch ... The ATA is not the draw they once were and the WSRC does not help based on lack of services in the immediate or even general area ... Lynn ( the Talking Head) Gipson will do anything and push for anything to benefit him and to hell with the members and what they want ... Time for the Members and some of these other clubs to push back and show them they are not the only game in town, those days ended long ago ... WPT ... (YAC) ...